Penny Rock - Episode 43
Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking.
Sometimes you meet people, and the connection is immediately there and you could quite honestly spend hours talking to them. My next guest is a wonderful friend and also a member of my Academy. Fantastic artist, somebody I could chat to for hours and hours and hours and who shares this very same values and beliefs that I do. And I'm delighted to be chatting to the absolutely fabulous Penny Rock. Hello. Hi Penny, oh my gosh, honestly, so organized as usual, aren’t I?
Penny Rock 01:53
Almost as organized as me.
Bonny Snowdon 01:56
I invite you to a podcast but I don't send you a link or anything like that.
Penny Rock 02:00
Well, it keeps me on my toes.
Bonny Snowdon 02:05
Funny oh gosh. How are you?
Penny Rock 02:07
I'm very well thank you in this very wet part of the country.
Bonny Snowdon 02:12
Well, I think the whole of the country is wet. Is vital here. Well, actually, I'm saying it's vital. It's a bit grey and drizzly but it's not tipping it down. Like it has been.
Penny Rock 02:23
It's on its way.
Bonny Snowdon 02:27
We're been very British here, aren't we?
Penny Rock 02:29
Yeah. That's right. Weather done.
Bonny Snowdon 02:31
And the niceties. Oh, it's so nice to have you here. And I'm so glad you've come to chat to me and everything.
Penny Rock 02:39
Thank you. I pleased to do so.
Bonny Snowdon 02:41
Oh, well. I feel like we've known each other for a while. And we've met which is --
Penny Rock 02:46
Which was lovely.
Bonny Snowdon 02:47
Yeah, it was really amazing. I feel like we're good friends. And we've known each other for a while, which is really good.
Penny Rock 02:52
Well, it does seem like we've known each other forever. But sometimes that's how you connect, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 02:58
Yes.
Penny Rock 02:59
Sometimes you just feel like you have known people forever. And sometimes you never get to know people.
Bonny Snowdon 03:04
Yeah, it's funny how that is, isn't it?
Penny Rock 03:06
Yeah. Is just something within us. That is the chemical thing, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 03:12
Yeah, it's that connection, isn't it? Oh, absolutely.
Penny Rock 03:15
It isn’t about art or where you live or anything like that, is it really?
Bonny Snowdon 03:22
No. I do think it's like a shared values or people with sort of almost like a similar history and all of that kind of stuff where you can really relate to what somebody's been through or gone through or whatever.
Penny Rock 03:42
Like on the same plane. ain’t we?
Bonny Snowdon 03:44
Yeah, definitely. So, tell me a little bit about where you are, who you are, and where you come from.
Penny Rock 03:49
Oh, gosh, an interview. So, at the minute, I'm in Somerset, I've been in lots and lots of places. So, I was born in South Africa, but I was only there for four months. And then we came back to UK and my parents moved around every few years. And then when I was in my early 20s, I met and married my husband and he was in the army. So, then we moved around for many more years until we weren't together anymore after a long, long time, and I still continue to move around basically. And during all that time, art was the thing. Any craft but art mainly. Art, knitting, sewing from a very young age I just used to draw or colouring books to start with and was always very precise about keeping everything in the line. So, all through my life I came back to art.
Bonny Snowdon 04:56
Do you think that's been the sort of the constant in your life? the thing that you can come back to because you know it's there?
Penny Rock 05:02
Yes and no, I don't think I came back to because I knew it was there. You are just always drawn to something aint you sometimes? And I just love drawing. I love writing. So, even when I write sometimes, I write small, sometimes I write big and round, sometimes I write all. You can't see that, can you? On a podcast but it's all spiky. I just like putting pen or pencil to paper really, I suppose in whatever way suits at the time. So, much like you I came to coloured pencils around the same time I think as you. Although I've been thinking about this and I was doing a therapeutic massage course. And part of that was in anatomy and physiology. And we had a colouring pencil anatomy book for each part. We had to colour in the muscles that we were doing at that time. And I used to sit and just colour in this book. Never took in any information about what muscles were called. But I loved colouring the book. And I think that was in about 2007. And I think that's when coloured pencils came back into my life. But then I was a watercolour artist. I always wanted to be. I wanted to be a very loose watercolour artists but I couldn't stop. So, very loose never happened.
Bonny Snowdon 06:30
Became super detailed?
Penny Rock 06:32
Yeah. Then it gets muddy in watercolour. So, that's a condensed thing of my life. So, I'm very happy here in Somerset. But I know because it's who I am. That I could wake up tomorrow and think oh I'll move and then I'll move
Bonny Snowdon 06:52
Well, you want to be near the sea, don't you?
Penny Rock 06:55
I do want to be by the sea. I'm not doing a very good job of it lately. Well, the sea has come to me with rain, maybe stand up on an arc and then I'll be everywhere.
Bonny Snowdon 07:06
What is it that draws you to the sea? What is it that makes you want to be by the sea?
Penny Rock 07:10
So even talking about being by the sea makes me want to cry. And I don't know why that is. I just feel free by the sea. And I don't know why. There's something about being on a beach, either the sea gently lapping on the shore or massive waves and wind. There's just something about it that draws me to it. I can't really explain what it is and I don't know why it is. But I just have a feeling that's where I'm meant to be eventually.
Bonny Snowdon 07:42
Have of you pinpointed where you're going to go or is it just anywhere?
Penny Rock 07:48
No, it isn't? I thought anywhere might do but it has to be somewhere that there aren't 3 million people all summer. It doesn't have to be a hot place. It has to be a less touristy place, I guess. I don't need the town. In the country by the sea would be wonderful. So, I could walk out onto the beach but behind me was the forest. That'd be very nice. Thank you.
Bonny Snowdon 08:16
That sounds idylic. I watched, Fisherman's Friends One and All or whatever the newest one.
Penny Rock 08:26
I've only seen the first one.
Bonny Snowdon 08:27
I watched that last night. And that obviously is Cornwall, isn't it? Oh, my goodness, it's all set around like a little Akobo fishing village and everything. Obviously, there are you know, tourists and everything. But people were coming out of their houses and it was there, pegging his washing up. Literally walked out the door pegging his washing up and there's the sea.
Penny Rock 08:52
Yeah. I think I need a bit of beach with my sea sand preferably but we're getting fussy now. But it will be in the United Kingdom, I think. I don't have an urge to go to Spain or Portugal or the Caribbean or Greece or not to live. I quite like the seasons though I moan about the weather.
Bonny Snowdon 09:24
Well, yes. But it is quite nice, isn't it to have things that sort of change? How do you cope when the clocks go back?
Penny Rock 09:31
I ignore it for the first day. Because how can you change the time? And then I realized at some stage I have to do what everyone else is doing otherwise it makes life difficult to work a bit for people.
Bonny Snowdon 09:48
Are you a little bit of a nonconformist, then Penny?
Penny Rock 09:51
I don't like being told what to do, I think I've learned after all these years. I don't mind being told what to do with If I want to do it. that was hard to explain as well. I like to be encouraged to do things. Like you're teaching, I love all that. I love being taught in that way. I just have a thing about the time change really. I'm not very good in the dark. I'm a daylight person. So, it's not the clock's changing for that it's getting darker, is it? But I don't like getting up in the dark. I don't mind coming over and pulling the curtains and not doing anything, because I'm quite happy to be at home. And not go out. But it makes for long days, doesn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 10:34
Yeah. I'm trying to fit time in at the moment to go swimming. And actually, after sort of four o'clock, I've got bags of time. I've got the whole afternoon and the evening if I want. But I know that if I put something in my diary to go swimming after four, I wouldn't go.
Penny Rock 10:59
I’m exactly the same.
Bonny Snowdon 11:03
I'm not scared of driving in the dark or anything. I don't have a problem with that. It's not anything to do with that, because I'm quite a confident driver. Although my children would tell me that I'm an absolutely terrible driver.
Penny Rock 11:15
I’m waiting for mine to tell me. You should stop now mom.
Bonny Snowdon 11:21
My older two are on the insurance for my car. And anytime we go anywhere. I get to the car, and one of them is in the driving seat. And one of them is in the passenger seat, and I get put in the back.
Penny Rock 11:35
Love to get them a couple of hats, then. If they want to chauffeur you around.
Bonny Snowdon 11:41
Anyway, so yeah, I've just got this thing where I really don't, my day kind of finishes at four. And that's it. And then I just want to kind of settle down and snuggle.
Penny Rock 11:51
We've told ourselves on that though. You know this whole frame of mind thing, because I have always said there's no point you join in anything in the winter, because I know I won't go. I've already told myself I'm not going to go.
Bonny Snowdon 12:07
Well, you see there is that isn't there?
Penny Rock 12:08
Yeah. I won’t be happy not going. But I know I won't. So, I wouldn't join a group that met in the evenings in the winter. I'd go in the summer, same 24 hours of doing the same stuff. I know I wouldn't go in the winter, so I don't even do it.
Bonny Snowdon 12:24
But then I guess you can turn it round on that as well. I wouldn't wouldn’t do anything in the winter, actually, because I don't want to go out in the winter. I want to just hunker down, have my tea, do my drawing, get cosy, and I'm not going to make any excuse rarely. I don't want to do it.
Penny Rock 12:50
No, you're probably right. But I think because of lots of things you question, whether you're convincing yourself not to do it. Though because of all the things, you can read and listen to. That tells you if you're positive, you'll do it and if you're negative. But some you have to question whether you're being positive, or not wanting to do something. That makes sense?
Bonny Snowdon 13:15
Yeah. It's about making a decision that suits you, isn't it? That's what it's about. And actually, it's a really interesting conversation to have because I think if you decide not to do something, and you have a very valid reason for not doing it, there's nothing negative about that.
Penny Rock 13:31
If you don't want to do something you don't have to do, is basically it. Unless it affects you saying you're going to pick somebody up from somewhere and then not turning up because you don't want to. It's just about you and what you do.
Bonny Snowdon 13:45
I did a podcast a couple of weeks ago about time. And I've got one out, that's coming out this morning, I think about boundaries.
Penny Rock 13:52
This is just not now.
Bonny Snowdon 13:57
And sometimes we say we want to do something, but then we make excuses not to do it. And I think that's when there are reasons behind and where we've told ourselves that oh, we're rubbish at doing this and we're rubbish at doing that. I don't think I've ever heard you say that you're rubbish with your drawings but I I know that you'd like to fiddle about and you'd like to put detail in colour. But you also really like to create finished pieces that aren't actually finished.
Penny Rock 14:27
I do. I have trouble with it. So, that's my next thing. I realized to do an unfinished piece; you actually have to plan it. You can't just start drawing and stop. You have to plan how you go because there's unfinished and uncompleted if you like. So, that's the plan. But I'm happy with my job. I've always been happy with my art I think really, and I've always known Uh, well, I'm happy with what I do. Because I'm not trying to be somebody else, I guess. I did tell you once, I think that when I started colour pencil drawing, you know that whole of where to start and then you start. And I’d be there for hours. And I sit back and think, well, somebody else has done that, like somebody else was channelling me, because I wasn't there when it was happening. Obviously, I was there. And this makes me sound really weird. But it was a wonder. Not that it was good. But the how we got there. Do you understand that?
Bonny Snowdon 15:41
I do get that. I do completely get that. Because I know you share my love of all things sort of a bit.
Penny Rock 15:53
But who cares?
Bonny Snowdon 15:57
Almost like it's like our higher self-creating. And I have to admit, I get this quite a lot. And I totally understand where you're coming from. So, I will sit down and do a drawing. Well, I won't sit down and do a drawing because it takes me a lot longer than that. Sit down to draw. And I'll have Harry Potter on. Seems to be the only thing that I have to go in at the minute is Harry Potter. We're on the final bit now. We're on the final stretch.
Penny Rock 16:30
I've never started it. So, maybe one day.
Bonny Snowdon 16:33
Absolutely. I don't watch the films. I’m not in the films. I just listened to the audiobook.
Bonny Snowdon 16:40
I absolutely love it. Anyway, and I will sit down and off I go. And it's almost like you're sort of cocooned in this thing. I can’t explain it. I'm waving my hands around. And I am almost like transported to somewhere else. It doesn't always happen. But it happens on a regular basis. And I'll come round, I'll have been drawing. And I'll suddenly go, oh. And it's like where have I been?
Penny Rock 16:40
Maybe one day.
Penny Rock 17:16
That's it. Harry Potter from this life.
Bonny Snowdon 17:19
And then you look down and you think, thank you.
Penny Rock 17:27
You've been sitting there doing it for a while.
Bonny Snowdon 17:30
But I think this is where we get into that state of flow.
Penny Rock 17:34
Yes. Where we not? I remember my daughter asking me rather than once a few years ago when you sit and draw isn't that when all stuff happens in your head when you're thinking about what's happened and how sad or happy or whatever you are. And I say, It's the only time that actually none of that happens. For some reason, you can literally be mindful when you're doing art can't you? Well, I can anyway, I don't think about anything. I don't think about eating or drinking. Anything really? I just do.
Bonny Snowdon 18:12
Quite honestly, well, I do know why I put so much weight on. But I will quite happily sit and draw for hours. If you give me the whole day to draw and I don't have to do anything else. I will draw all day. And I will very badly seldom get up and move around. I do have to set alarms and everything. But I could quite happily sit for 12 hours and not eat. Because I don't eat when I'm drawing.
Penny Rock 18:38
I could do that. Except I know I would be chair shaped for probably two days afterwards. I got an Apple Watch. So, I set the alarm. So, tend to every hour, it tells me to stand.
Bonny Snowdon 18:53
And move around.
Penny Rock 18:54
And I can ignore it. But I know if I just walk around the room or just go and get a glass of water or something and sit back down again and then carry on.
Bonny Snowdon 19:04
Definitely. And I'm getting better, but I'm still really bad at that. Because I just get into a state and then I’m there.
Penny Rock 19:15
Don't you? And I'll just finish this bit and then I'll stop. And then when you just finish that bit you think well, I'll just do this.
Bonny Snowdon 19:28
I like to stop when I've got something in a place where it looks okay. And where I can very easily pick back up again.
Penny Rock 19:38
Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 19:39
Well, if I'm just finding something a bit of a challenge. And I'm just trying to get something quite right. Usually when it's something like an eye that's not got a huge amount of detail. And it's almost dark, just black, but there's a tiny bit of light in there, but the light is probably only a couple of shades lighter than the darkest dark. That's the thing that I find the most challenging. And I can't leave that until I'm happy with it. I'm not going to be perfect because nothing's ever perfect. But I can't leave it until I'm happy with it. And then I can go okay, off we go. Unless, of course, one of the dogs is missing. Wants to go out or whatever. But isn't it strange when we do get into that state that our head isn't full of rubbish?
Penny Rock 20:28
Yeah. Yours is a business. So, you have to sit down and do it. But sometimes for me, I know how much I love doing it. But sometimes I still get the procrastination of well, I'll just put the washing on. And I'll just make another cup of tea. And then I'll go and do it. So, I journal a lot now. And I even write in my journal, at nine o'clock, I'm doing yoga, and at 10 o'clock, I'm starting my art. And then if I don't do it, I feel bad, which is ridiculous. Because it's me talking to me. And it makes me have some kind of schedule. Yeah, I can't do a schedule like you because I would fight it all the time. Thinking, why do I have to do that? I don't have to do that.
Bonny Snowdon 21:15
Oh, believe me, Penny, there are battles that go on in my head every single minute of the day. Because I don't naturally schedule. I'm not an organized person at all. And what I have found I really like, is when people give me tasks to do that I can physically tick off. And that's what I have. That's why I asked for anybody who puts anything in my diary, make it a task so that I can go, I've done that, tick. It makes me feel really productive. But I really struggle with being organized.
Penny Rock 21:50
You're doing your best because you have other people put things in your diary. If you put all these things in your diary yourself, then you're giving yourself permission to move those things, aren't you? Because it's you that’s put them there?
Bonny Snowdon 22:03
Exactly.
Penny Rock 22:04
That’s how I work.
Bonny Snowdon 22:05
Yeah, exactly. And then that rebellious side of me comes out and goes, well, you don't have to do that. You were saying that it's a little bit different for you because it's not a business. Unless it's a live stream, or I've got to create a video, I don't put any of my drawing time in my diary.
Penny Rock 22:06
You do that for you.
Bonny Snowdon 22:23
My diary doesn't have drawing in there anywhere. Even if I'm doing a tutorial, or anything like that, my drawing is still very much a hobby.
Penny Rock 22:47
Well, done.
Bonny Snowdon 22:48
But what I've found is that over the years, I used to get really stressed out particularly with commission work and Patreon actually. I used to get really stressed out about getting things done on time. And I have all of these Commission's to do and I'd have to really cram them in and stop doing stuff for me, taking time out for me to get one of these things in. And I've found that I've stopped doing that. And I'm like, now that I work from a waitlist, unless somebody has, like, "Oh, I'm booking it in." And I really do want it for this date, because it's for a birthday, I found that it doesn't stress me out anymore. And if somebody's piece is a little bit late, it's a little bit late. Obviously, I'll let the client know. But they've waited a couple of years. So, they're going to wait a week or a month. And I found that I've become a lot calmer and more settled with the time of things. And since I've stopped posting things on Patreon, it's made such a difference. I've always felt relatively relaxed. But I was always thinking I've got to get a tutorial out; I've got to get two tutorials out for Patreon on the first of every month. I's got to be there, I've got to do a focus one, I've got to do a full one. And actually, now having the Academy with one or two or three videos going up every week, just because of the live streams that we do, and like probably a full tutorial every month. But I don't have that crazy stress feeling that I've got to get this done and it's much calmer and it's a such a nicer place.
Penny Rock 24:33
Good, isn't it? That's what takes away people's love of art, I think. So, when I came to you. Well, we were just art and things. And I have this vision of stopping work and doing art and doing commissions. And then weirdly for all the other stuff you give us, I realized that wasn't what I wanted to do. I didn't want to have to draw things and to have everything you've just said. I've realized that that wasn't for me and I was coming to art with a means of making money for that only and knowing that then it becomes something else. And I didn't want that. So, I've taken the whole big. So, I'm listening to all the podcasts and other people and things you recommended, and all your business, everything. I found me through all the things that you suggest for doing for art, like the dream board, and everything has taken me to where I want to be, and taken my art back to a hobby. And I'm forever grateful to be honest, but it's very strange. So, now I'm in a place where if somebody wants to pay me to do a commission, I'll do one. I'm not going to say no, I'm not charging if somebody wants to. But I'll also do one if people cover my costs. But I don't, I'm going to send it out. Put that out there. I'm putting it out there now. If I like a picture, I think, I'll do that as long as they cover my costs, because I fancy doing it. Depending who it is. If I know somebody could afford. Basically, I'm not doing Commission's. I'm very happy.
Bonny Snowdon 24:51
And is that because you don't have to choose the subject or?
Penny Rock 26:25
No, it's because I think I've always had a really funny relationship with finances and money. Even when I was married, even before I was married, when I was young, there's always been this funny relationship with it. And it put that relationship into my art when I thought that it's nothing to do with a subject really, if you give me a subject, I'll draw it. I know, I can copy things. I know I can do it, so it looks like it actually does perfectly almost, if that's the right word. Not perfectly. But you know, what I mean, so it would look. Or I can stop when I want to stop. Adding the financial side to the art that takes it to the wrong place for me. I don't like I don't like money. I know we all need it. And we all need more. And I probably need more than a lot of people. Because I'm not very good with money either. Not more than a lot of people. But I'm very comfortable at the minute. It's all relative, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 27:28
Yeah.
Penny Rock 27:29
So, I'm happy to work. I didn't ever want to work for somebody else. But I'm happy to do a little part time job for somebody else that brings my money in that covers everything. So, that I can do the other things as and when I want to really, with no pressure.
Bonny Snowdon 27:46
Yeah. And that's nice. That's really nice.
Penny Rock 27:49
It's nice. But that's weirdly come from following what you've given us with the intent of it taking me to a business and doing a real about turn at some stage. I don't know when that happened. Well, actually, my dream, my original dream board, which is sort of still hanging, was about where I wanted to be in an art business world. Whereas my real dream board, the one I was kind of denying isn't the same?
Bonny Snowdon 28:25
Gosh, isn't that interesting? And you were denying your dream and bringing something else in. I mean, did you feel you were supposed to, you had to build a business from your art?
Penny Rock 28:40
To make money, yes, that was a way to make money. But I knew I didn't want to teach and I didn't want to do tutorials. And I didn't want to do any of that. I just wanted to be an artist. And the money was if I did art, I could make money. And then I wouldn't have to work for somebody else then. But not because I wanted to do it to make money but because I need the money. Because everybody needs to keep a roof over their head. When I came at it from that way, for a while I think it was last year sometime, I just couldn't bring myself to do any art. It was a couple of months or so. And I just thought, well, I'll do it tomorrow. And then I kind of tried to talk to myself and then understand why. And even though I didn't have any commissions to do I was putting pressure on myself to do the art to make money.
Bonny Snowdon 29:34
Money is a funny old thing, isn't it? I've kind of come to the current conclusion because I think your thoughts can change on a very regular basis.
Penny Rock 29:45
They do. Read my journal every day. It's different.
Bonny Snowdon 29:48
And depending on who you listen to, and you talk to. A lot of times I'll listen to a podcast and it will have a massive influence on me. But money, I have always thought I was rubbish with money. I've always thought through it. And I wonder if it stems back too. I remember, well I think I remember. Sometimes whether it's been a conversation or a dream or whatever. But I think I remember being given the task of taking the lunchtime takings from my parents’ restaurant, to the bank, and paying it in. And there was quite a lot of money there. It was back I guess it was in the 70s. I was probably about 9 or 10.
Penny Rock 30:39
Three.
Bonny Snowdon 30:42
Three, off you go. I remember getting to the bank, and it was Barclays Bank on Ripper marketplace. I remember getting the bank with the paying in book, and going to get the money. And it was gone. And it hadn't even been a very long walk. It was maybe about a seven- or eight-minute walk from my house. And I don't remember being sort of really told off about it. I've been kind of thinking about this for a while. I wonder if it was that, that has made me believe that I am not good with money. I can't be trusted with money.
Penny Rock 31:21
That's the seed planted, isn't it? Really.
Bonny Snowdon 31:24
And so, I've had a peculiar relationship with money through the years, I've basically spent it and been normally
Penny Rock 31:34
and done it another time, though.
Bonny Snowdon 31:38
But I've always got what I wanted. Not necessarily because I had the money there, because it was very easy to borrow money to get credit cards and stuff. But I have never been very good at saving ever you know?
Penny Rock 31:54
I always know everything will be all right.
Bonny Snowdon 31:57
Well, I've got exactly the same.
Penny Rock 32:01
So, you manage what you've got, really, and I know everything will be all right. It's always nice to have more to do something. But I'm the same as you, I think. Sorry to interrupt. I always thought I had been rubbishing at money. And I always thought, so. Although I've worked, my dad always looked after me till I got married, I suppose. And then my husband always looked after me because we were moving around. I had little jobs here and there some very diverse jobs. Just little part time things. No career, but I never wanted a career. I just wanted to be Mrs. Walton on the hill with the dogs and the children and making quilts and cooking and all that. But anyway, with no sea funnily enough. And then this realisation that I've spent a lot of time thinking and this was to do with making money out of art as well, that I needed to do lots of things to make money because I was rubbish at it. I haven't got enough, how am I going to survive? How am I going to keep [Inaudible] blah, blah, blah. Until I sat myself down again and thought and this is probably from a podcast or something. I've listened to a lot of Stephen Bartlett ones and some people are very interesting on there. I came to the realization that I needed to change my attitude. I'm a lot luckier than a lot of other people. I'm on my own, I don't own my own home, I keep a roof over my head, I feed myself, I've got a nice new car. I've got everything I want really so I am good with money. Otherwise, I wouldn't be in this position. I might have an odd bit of money I owe here and there that I can pay off and not pay off and I don't say. But actually, I'm very good with money because I'm 68 years old year. I can say that there's some old and I'm taking care of myself. For the first time in my life, I realized I can actually do this and I'm very good at it. Otherwise, I wouldn't be here. That was another turnaround that's happened from you really, Bonny. I sound like I'm your biggest stalky fan but I can't tell you how much it has changed everything that I didn't know it was going to change, more than it's changed the art if you like.
Bonny Snowdon 34:11
But that's amazing. Because everything that I share is what I've been doing for myself because I've had all of these like personal internal stuff going on. Absolutely. And then I'm kind of sharing that. And the people who are listening and who are sitting themselves down on the odd occasion and going hang on a second you need a bit of a talking too internally. You need to change your attitude. The people who are doing the doing who are actually taking that information that other people have given to me or making changes.
Penny Rock 34:49
Well, it works anybody that's listening. If you want to make a change with one thing to change first of all, you have to change the things you want. Nothing changes if nothing changes. And I know some people will probably think, this is all a bit airy fairy. But actually, well, it's worked for me. And that's what's important to me.
Bonny Snowdon 35:15
I think when you start taking responsibility for what goes on in here, in my empty head.
Penny Rock 35:24
Mine is very full of rubbish.
Bonny Snowdon 35:28
Completely empty. When you start taking responsibility for yourself, and start to ask those really important questions, and you start to change that internal dialogue, which we all have.
Penny Rock 35:42
Yeah, we do. It's very difficult not to have it, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 35:45
Yeah. But if you change that internal dialogue, you can only do it slowly. You can't just go right. I'm just going to change everything. You've gone through the work, you've got to go through the experiences to then be able to go, "Well, do I like that experience? Do I want to keep having that experience? Or do I want to change it?" And if I want to change it, exactly, right we need to change things.
Penny Rock 36:04
It is the habit thing, isn't it? You got to decide, you have to make them the decision into a habit that becomes normality, whatever normality is, because there isn't normal.
Bonny Snowdon 36:16
But I've found that I've become a lot more aware of different things. So, I never used to listen to podcasts. It wasn't really on my radar at all. It wasn't something that I listened to.
Penny Rock 36:31
Radio 2 was all that I listened to.
Bonny Snowdon 36:32
That's exactly what I did. I listened to Radio 2 and I listened to Radio 4. I have not listened to either radio station. I have not watched a news program; I think for probably about a year. I do sometimes catch up on things on YouTube or something that flips up on Facebook or soemthing. But when I get in the car, it was always Radio 2. Or it was Radio 4. And I have become much more attuned to who I am and much more aware of who I want to be and where I want to go by listening to podcasts rather than listening to all of the rubbish that's on the radio. I'm not talking about music or anything. Listening to people who are inspiring like Steven Bartlett, that man is amazing.
Penny Rock 37:20
Yeah, his interviewees are amazing as well.
Bonny Snowdon 37:24
You know, this weekend, I listened to the interview he did with Peter Crouch.
Penny Rock 37:30
I haven't done that one yet.
Bonny Snowdon 37:32
I'm not into football at all. I thought, you know what, I'm going to listen to it. What a fabulous interview.
Penny Rock 37:39
Yeah, I need to do that then.
Bonny Snowdon 37:41
It was brilliant and it was a little bit about football. But you can bring all sorts that have happened to other people. It can have an effect on you as a person as well. And Steven Bartlett is I think one of the best coaches’ interviewers whatever. Because he asks those really tricky questions. Somebody will say something and he'll go, just tell me about that. Just going back, just tell me. And it's the things that you might go, oh, gosh, I can't possibly ask that. Because it might bring up something that's a little bit hard or a little bit painful, whatever. And he asked the question, and you get the most fantastic answers back. And that has been, by far, the best kind of help for information and everything that I've had it's amazing.
Penny Rock 38:35
Yeah, it's amazing. I'm just really, almost addicted to him I suppose. I still do have Radio 2 on in the car because I drive to work and it takes three minutes. So, by the time I put podcast on, it's not worth it. And I drive to work because I come home, this is an excuse. I'm justifying my drive to work now. Because I come home at lunchtime. And if I wanted to come home at lunchtime, walking, I wouldn't have enough time. So, there's my justification for driving to work. But if I go to my daughter, who's about 50 minutes away, or drive up to my son, who's up near you, then I just put the podcast on now. I have it all planned before I get in the car and go but I wouldn't have before.
Bonny Snowdon 39:18
No. It's wonderful, isn't it? To have that resource.
Penny Rock 39:22
I love listening to people talking obviously, why I like talking as well. That's obvious too. I have been listening to people.
Bonny Snowdon 39:31
When I worked, so if I'm going to have anything on if I'm maybe doing something, when I'm drawing, I can't listen to music when I'm drawing.
Penny Rock 39:41
I used to. When I did watercolours, I used to listen to music. But I don't anymore. I listen to you or a podcast.
Bonny Snowdon 39:51
I like to hear people talking. Even if I'm not listening to them, that is the kind of vibration frequency whatever that I like, that human voice rather than singing. I'm very susceptible to noise and smells.
Penny Rock 40:10
I've got very sensitive hearing, which drives me. But weirdly though I shout when I get excited. Even though my hearing is very fantastic.
Bonny Snowdon 40:19
Yes, it's funny, isn't it? Definitely smells for me. Smells can bring back all sorts of memories.
Penny Rock 40:28
They do. Oh, definitely smells and music, though does, doesn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 40:32
Yes.
Penny Rock 40:33
Music takes you immediately back to. And I think because I've moved so much. If I hear a song, I can tell you where I lived when that song happened. I've realized I spent a lot of my time; I was talking to a friend the other day saying when I lived in so and so. And I think and then somebody said to me, Okay, so you moved around a lot. And I think well, I'm not saying it. I didn't realize I was saying it like that. But it was taken that I was saying, I've been here and I've been there.
Bonny Snowdon 41:01
Oh, you see well, that's them, sort of reflecting their feelings onto you. Maybe sort of feeling a little bit that they haven't done very much. And it's funny how people do that, isn't it?
Penny Rock 41:16
Yeah. And at first I used to think and why? I think I'd be well, that's a whole wanting to please everybody thing, isn't it? Not saying, no. I used to say yes to absolutely everything. Until I realize like you were saying, if you say yes and then within two seconds, you're thinking, "Oh, I don't want to do that." So, I've learned to say no. And I've also learned that if you say you might do something, because you know you need to think about it. Probably the fact that you know you need to think about it is your answer. Already you don't want to do it. I think you have to ask somebody else, should I do this or that? You know your answer, don't you?
Bonny Snowdon 42:03
Yeah, it's always nice to put something past somebody. And I don't know whether you're the same because I know you're on your own divorced. I'm similar. I've got my children here. And I'm not sure whether I miss not having somebody to talk things through. Because actually, the last sort of 14 years of my marriage, I didn't really have anybody to pass things through because we didn't really --
Penny Rock 42:28
Likewise, really. If I'm totally honest, I don't think he was on the same way. He probably thought I was rude. I don't think we were on the same wavelength in as much as, but I was much like you from listening to you. If I knew it would end up in an argument or silence, then I just kept it to myself.
Bonny Snowdon 42:51
Do you think we've become quite good at actually having that internal conversation ourselves? I feel you're very happy in who you are.
Penny Rock 43:03
Yeah, I am.
Bonny Snowdon 43:04
And I'm certain. I'm the happiest I've ever been, I have to say. But I think I've become quite good at actually internalising that conversation and having a rational conversation in my head. And I think I've become quite good at that rational side of stuff. You have almost liked a bit of a debate in my head. But without it going. My inner voice isn't critical. My inner voice is actually an incredibly encouraging voice for me. It's a, you can definitely do this, this is going to be amazing. And I think that's how I've got to where I am now. It's not always been like that. But I sometimes think comes this weird person, but I definitely have a very encouraging internal voice. And that's very useful when I need to do this mulling over. Whereas the rest of my family, my brothers and sisters they're married, they've got very supportive other half’s. My mom and dad have been married for a very long time. And it’s weird when I see their relationships. It was very different to the relationship that I had with my husband. And they have those conversations, they can ask a question, and then they can have the to and fro. And I don't think I ever had that with mine.
Penny Rock 44:25
I suppose mine because of our situation. He was away in the army years, at least for 6,7,8 months every year. So, for that time, I talked to me anyway. So, I've been doing this a long time. I think that's probably actually now you've said it when I say to somebody, oh, I think I'll move and I'm going in three weeks or whatever. Because I rent, I can do that and you have to give a month's notice. And I think people think oh, that's really quick. And have you thought about this and that. But I've talked to myself about it. Now it looks like to the outside, that I've woken up this morning and thought I'm going to move and I've organised everything today and I'm off. But it doesn't happen quite like that. I do have little discussions with myself about moving at least. But what about anything really, it’s like getting a new car, I suppose. I think I'll change the car. And then people say, but there was nothing wrong with the other car. And I think, yeah, but I like new cars. Why shouldn't I change the car, you know? I thought it'd be better, it'd be better on fuel, it'll do the things I want it to do, I won't get cross with it because it steams up all the time. And so, I'm just changing the car. For me, that's no big deal. Moving is no big deal. Because I haven't lived in the same place. I have probably moved 40 times. Even in living in the same place, so when I lived, I moved up to Retford where my son is, in 2017. I lived in two places there, because I lived with them for a while until I find somewhere to live. And then I moved into a house around the corner. But I never felt comfortable. It was like staying in a hotel really a bit. And then I moved to somewhere else that I really liked. But wasn't right for me still in a different way. Because it was a retirement place. And just I wasn't old enough in my head to be there. Or physically I don't think anyway. And then I moved back here in 2020. So, even from 17 to 20. I have three homes. Well, four, if you count living with my son for a few months. But I don't think anything of it really.
Bonny Snowdon 46:50
Well, I guess it's kind of part of your culture, it is part of what you were brought up with. And it's almost like the normal.
Penny Rock 46:57
Yeah, but there's no fear. I'm very much a person who thinks I have this kind of motto. If somebody else can do something, then I can do it. Maybe I don't know how to do it. But if one person can do something, then there's no reason why I can't do it. I've got brains and arms and legs and I can. So, I've always been that I can do it. And it's very difficult. A friend once said to me, just because you can doesn't mean you have to. There are other people that actually can do it better because they're experienced at it. And I don't know about a better bit. So, you can get other people to do these things.
Bonny Snowdon 47:35
Yes. I love that. I think that's quite liberating actually. If somebody else has done it, then then I can do it.
Penny Rock 47:44
Why can't you? Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 47:45
Yeah, exactly. But do you think sometimes it does hold you back slightly because you try and do everything yourself?
Penny Rock 47:51
Yes. I think that and also being used to being on your own and doing stuff and having a chat stops you asking other people for help and maybe you should. Not help, I'm drowning help. But help me move this Waldrop kind of help without trying to move it yourself, things like that. All the little things that really, you should ask for help.
Bonny Snowdon 48:16
Yeah, it's like me. Luckily, I've got two strapping sons that live here. So, I've moved a little fridge. I bought this fridge, and I've moved it down into the office in the garden, which is where Amy and Lucy are. So, I'm trying to make it so that they're not self-contained or anything. But so, it's easier for them. They can keep their lunch down there, they don't have to keep coming up the garden. Anyway, so I took that down, and I was unpacking it and sorted it all out, moved it to the side and everything. Opened the door, and everything's strapped in, everything's down so it doesn't move in transit. So, I'm taking all of this tape off, pull a little plastic bag out with that door handle. And, of course, I just go well, there's two pieces to this door handle out and snapped it all together. And then it was just like, oh, and there's some screws that you have to put in the one half to screw it onto the door, and then you snap the other half. I can't get the door off. Actually, I could quite easily say to my eldest son who's got a ton of tools, can you just sort this handle out? No doubt it will just be a fridge without a handle now.
Penny Rock 49:27
I'd have to get it apart you see, that's the other thing. I like things to be how they should be. I'm not very good at broken things.
Bonny Snowdon 49:35
Oh, you see, I'm the person that makes do.
Penny Rock 49:39
Again, I think this is from moving because everywhere we went to, we didn't have very long. And unless you emptied all your boxes immediately and made a home there was no point really because you'd be locked again. Sometimes it was only 15 months in moving so we just literally moved a home to all these different buildings. We, I'm saying I probably more because more often than not we would move and after a week go away for six months, and then I’d sort everything out. And then he comes back and we’d be moving again. But they're not quite six months. But I love doing it. The heavy work is the hardest work. When you want to change a room round? We got to the stage where he'd say to me, right, you can have one move of this room, we'll put it like this when the removal men come, if he's there. And I'll move stuff once, but that's it. But it's weird when you live in the same place how you'll move somewhere. Like moving here two and a half years ago, and the removal men I've said put the sofa there and put back there and put back there. And then I'm thinking, but it doesn't actually have to stay there. It might be better somewhere else. But then there's the thing where I can't on my own physically move stuff.
Bonny Snowdon 51:01
I want to say I don't really care about stuff like that. But I do care. I’m writing this book, as you know. There's a part where I talk about knowing yourself. And there are all these different questions that I've been asking. And I've been answering and hopefully it'll help other people to ask their question. But one of them is what annoys you. And the thing that really annoys me is mess. But I am the world's messiest person.
Penny Rock 51:35
But maybe you're not. I was going to say organized mess but you're not a organized mess.
Bonny Snowdon 51:39
Well, I am. It is quite organized. I do know where everything is. And if somebody moves stuff, I'm like but I put it on there. But it really irritates me. And what I've done in my living room is we used to have a big sideboard and bookcase. It was huge. We got it in 2007. I mean, it weighed a ton. And I ended up giving it away. It was a beautiful wooden and it had drawers and glass bits and pieces. It was really lovely. But it was massive and it just wasn't going to fit. And we were going to get another bookcase in and I said no, I'm not going to. So, in that room now there is one little table with a lamp on it. And that room stays tidy all the time because there's nowhere to dump anything. And that's what happens in my house. I have taught my children to dump stuff. If there's a surface, you just dump things on it. So, consequently my gorgeous kitchen a half of the table is taken up with Peggy because she lives on the kitchen table. The other half is filled with stuff that I could just get a bin bag and just put everything in it. Honestly, and I would never miss it. And then clothes, washing.
Penny Rock 52:59
See, that's the joys of having three adult children at home, really.
Bonny Snowdon 53:05
The boys are brilliant. They'll put their washing in. I'll then probably move it to the dryer and put another washer in. I usually take it out to dry and fold it leave it on the table within a couple of hours of them being home it’s gone. My daughter, her pile gets bigger and be bigger, and then it falls over and then I've got to wash it again because the cat will be sick on it or something. And it just stays there.
Penny Rock 53:31
Too many clothes.
Bonny Snowdon 53:33
Yes, please move your clothes. I haven't got time. I just move your flipping clothes. Oh my god. So, half of the kitchen is filled, is my daughter's wardrobe.
Penny Rock 53:43
Well, you should take her clothes and put them on her bed. I know you physically have to do that. But put them on the bed so she can't get in bed until she does something with them.
Bonny Snowdon 53:56
She will just lie on them.
Penny Rock 53:57
That’s her clothes it's her problem, isn't it? Really? I suppose. The big scheme of things, but I know what you mean. I don't like the dust that comes with mess. Because everything gets really dusty all the time. And too much dust makes me wheeze and my eyes itch. So, my biggest bugbear would be things that are broken. So, a door handle. I'll come and fix your door handle. If the handle is meant to be on it then it should be on it. If your plugs broken, mend your plug, your sink plug, I'm talking I'm not an electrician or a plumber really but I know I like things to be as they should be. Which is probably really annoying. Only I've learned not to be like that in other people's houses. Because I used to go to people's houses family made me and many things fall when they didn't know they were broken. And then I think somebody said something one day, I think it was an old auntie, once we were there. We'd been cooking and everything and I was clearing up and I took the tray out of the microwave and cleaned all the microwave and everything. And she never said anything. And then later on in the evening a glass of wine. She said, I'm so embarrassed, I didn't know you could take that out. She said, I'm just so embarrassed that you saw how messy it was. And I didn't think anything of it, I just cleaned it. That's what you do. And I thought I must stop. That's like somebody else's zone, I mustn't go into other people zone without permission.
Bonny Snowdon 55:42
Gosh, I just put up with stuff. I've got the door into the garage. And I've got a freezer where I keep all the dog food. So, I do go into the garage quite a lot. I've also got a box of pig ears. And Nelly keeps on trying to get into the garage to get the pig ears. That are for the dogs, by the way, it's not for us.
Bonny Snowdon 56:00
It may seem strange.
Penny Rock 56:00
I guessed that.
Penny Rock 56:01
Technically I know you love dogs.
Bonny Snowdon 56:05
There is this huge box, I bought them off Amazon. This box arrived they are not even in a bag or anything. It's just a box with the pig ears in so of course the dogs can sniff them. Anyway, the garage door is a fire door. The handle doesn't work and it just comes out. So, every now and again, I go to pull the door and I just pull the handle off. And then I just go, for goodness’s sake, pick the handle up and just kind of slot it back into a hole in the door. Why I haven't had it fixed? I have no idea. So, next time you come around Penny, bring your screw.
Penny Rock 56:36
I'll bring the tools next. Now I would have to fix that you see, because it takes two minutes. But I get pleasure from fixing something like that and thinking, well, it's been talked about for ages and it took two minutes. That’s another husband thing if you'd like, but I get that he was away. But sometimes I'd say to him, would you just do this for me and he’d say yes. And then I'd wait for him to get up and do it. And the next day I think he couldn't get through it yet. Because when I asked for something to be done, I mean yesterday. I don't mean in a week. But for him he was going to do it and he would do it. Probably knowing that I couldn't wait. So, I’d do it myself. Though, I don't know, you'd have to ask him that. But impatience is probably one of my traits actually I would think.
Bonny Snowdon 57:29
I think I am incredibly patient, especially when it comes to stuff that kind of goes wrong. When I say wrong, I mean, just in a normal household. You'll come down in the morning, and the washing machines leaked or something like that. I just have ultimate patience with stuff like that. I'm just like, never mind. It's just not open. And I'm always that kind of a person. And it's very, very, very seldom that I completely lose it. Very seldom. And when I do, I properly lose it. And I'd probably say maybe once a year, I properly lose it. Maybe not even that. And I shout and then I damage my throat. And then I'm like [Inaudible] because I'm like really mad. Just everything is just gone like that's enough. But otherwise, I've got patience, you know, patience of a saint.
Penny Rock 58:37
I'd be patient in that if things break. And that's just what it is. It happens. Yesterday, for instance, I had a delivery from Amazon yesterday. I get car rage in Amazon major thing or delivery man rage. So, I'm sitting down sewing up. I'm making toys of clothes for my granddaughters’ dolls for Christmas. So, I'm sitting knitting. So, I'm sewing up yesterday afternoon. And then I get a message to say my Amazon delivery has been delivered handed to the recipient. And I thought, well, no, it's not my door. So, I went outside. It's not there. I went to this place I told them to leave it if I'm not there, it wasn't there. And that really wound me up for about half an hour. Because I thought why did they do that? Why did they say they've delivered it even that they've handed it to somebody?
Penny Rock 59:29
I don't know? Because I've complained. And now if I go in it just says you've already charged. It won't let me know who's contacted me. I don't know where it is. That really winds me up. And I think it's happened on a Sunday before. I guess the bottom line is I don't like lies. And the delivery man has lied and said he's delivered it. But he hasn't. That's the bottom, not the fact that it wasn't delivered but somebody has told a lie. I don't like lies. It's not good. Hopefully I'll get it before Christmas Because it's Christmas presents or something.
Bonny Snowdon 59:29
And why was it?
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:14
You have to lie and tell them. Oh, I left it in the car
Penny Rock 1:00:18
I will do that. So, I'm impatient. In some, I'm a bit of a, whatever the word is really, to people. I'm impatient when I want something done. But I'm not impatient as I'm very patient with people, I think. I'm bossy I know that because people tell me that all the time. That's impatient, probably the bossiness. Apparently I take over quite often. That's another thing my daughter tells me. I think the first time I went to her for Christmas when I was on my own, and I was helping in the kitchen. And I didn't even say do you mind? I just started doing stuff. And then I said, eventually after a bit of buck fizz and everything. I said, "Do you mind if I just do this?" And she said, "No, because you want to take over anyway. You might as well do it." I said, "Really do I?" Maybe I do. I don't think I can do it better way. I just like doing stuff.
Bonny Snowdon 1:01:23
Yeah, but better that than just sitting there and letting other people do all of the work.
Penny Rock 1:01:28
Yeah. If you saw me sitting for hours doing nothing, procrastinating. You wouldn't believe that I actually like doing stuff. I don't like just sitting and doing nothing really, if I'm not right. I don't think I ever do sit and do nothing. If I sit and write my journal, which is turning into a book. But nobody wants to read it and bits I wouldn't want anybody to read. But even if I am watching Telly, I'm knitting or doing I can't just sit because that's a waste of time. I’m always doing something. Talking about life.
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:06
I could just talk to you forever Penny.
Penny Rock 1:02:11
Well, you are very welcome to. I don’t think everybody wants to listen to us forever maybe we should just do it on the side.
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:17
Yeah, we chat away. Well, it's been lovely chatting, and we must catch up again very soon.
Penny Rock 1:02:23
Will do, you know my number.
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:25
Yes. And hopefully it will see you in our club tomorrow.
Penny Rock 1:02:28
You will with the lips and the tooth. What's that all about? [Inaudible]
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:38
All right, Penny.
Penny Rock 1:02:40
All right. Take care. Bye.
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:41
Bye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time.
