Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking. When you open up your mind and start to take responsibility for your own actions, and really understand how you work and behave as a person, you'll find that things start to happen, things start to change. I met my next guest as part of a coaching group and her story really inspired me, I'm delighted to introduce Caroline Baber, life coach and NLP Master Practitioner. Oh, it's so nice to see you again.
Caroline Baber 01:41
I'm so excited to chat to you. I'm really looking forward to this. I've been following your art on Instagram. I keep showing everybody your drawings, I think they’re absolutely amazing.
Bonny Snowdon 01:50
Oh, that's really sweet. Thank you. It's funny, isn't it? How we meet people that you would never ever meet, I don't think. Well, because of the internet. Obviously, we met through Nina's fantastic coaching course. It's brilliant, isn't it? when you put yourself out there and you do things that maybe you probably wouldn't necessarily do. I don't know. It wasn't really a whim for me to do the coaching course it was something I'd really wanted to do. Then it was kind of word of mouth. Oh, you should try this lady and then joining that for the 16 days that we were all together. It was incredible, isn't it?
Caroline Baber 02:34
Yeah, it's fantastic, isn't it? I totally agree with you. Meeting all these new people that you wouldn't normally meet and then finding out that you have so much in common with them. That's what I find so incredible.
Bonny Snowdon 02:44
Yes, absolutely. It's just, it blows my mind. Sometimes people talk about social media and internet and it all gets a little bit too, where we were just writing letters and meeting local people and everything. That actually opens up like this huge world where you can get to know people and the fascinating stories and everything that everybody has. It's just brilliant. I'm just so pleased that you're going to chat to me, and I really hope that we can do some work in the future together anyway. So, I don't know whether you just want to introduce yourself and just tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do what you've done. Anything.
Caroline Baber 03:26
Sure. So, I am a life coach and NLP therapist. So, my background is in sports coaching. So, specifically dressage, so I did that for a really long time. I had a lot of horses, I bred horses and coached people, and absolutely loved it. Then my experience with NLP then led to me thinking, this is such an incredible tool, I want to be able to use this with my sports coaching clients. Actually, through the journey, I then realized that I wanted to expand and not just use it on the sports side of things. So, it's been quite a long journey for me. But through that, and through recognizing and working on my own challenges, I then found an amazing group of people and my clients that I work with that I help with their struggles. And it's quite similar to the sports coaching in that it's working on mindset, helping people Excel and shine I suppose to really help them achieve their goals. I think coaching should be really motivating and empowering for people. So, I try and hopefully give a bit of that to my clients. I guess the thing that I found coming into life coaching was that a lot of people didn't realize why they would want or need a life coach, which was quite different to in the sports world. Everybody has a coach, everybody wants to coach, coaches are really valued and sought after. I find it interesting that people, I suppose for sports they recognize that need, but that people struggle on with their lives without realizing the benefit of having a coach, and I absolutely love it. I think everybody should have a coach. That was how I got into it, was through having coaching and NLP myself. So, that's pretty much suppose what I do. I have some dogs and horses and all that kind of amazing stuff that just adds a little bit of joy to my life.
Bonny Snowdon 03:55
What you were saying about the sports people having coaches and how it's the norm and how they really value that particular side of things. I guess, business people as well, a lot of big businesses have their performance coaches, people to get through, become better. But for everyday people, you're absolutely right, if everybody had a coach, the world would be the most amazing place.
Caroline Baber 06:35
Yeah, absolutely. I completely agree. I think in sports, it's really recognized that, at elite level, there's not that much difference in ability, it all comes down to mindset. Whereas in everyday life, I think a lot of people are struggling on and they don't realize that it's the mindset that's perhaps holding them back or causing them discomfort, and being able to change that way of thinking is so powerful. There's a really lovely quote, I think it's from Einstein, that you can't solve your problems with the same thinking that you use to create them. I think that's so true and that's where coaching really comes in is that it helps people to untangle their thoughts and to change their thinking, so that they can then take back their power and live a more fulfilled life. So, many people are starting to recognize that, but even at executive level, people are still struggling on with burnout and stress and all of these things, because they're driven, and carrying on with the same patterns of thinking.
Bonny Snowdon 07:51
Yeah, its crazy, isn't it? I guess probably some clients well, but do you get people when you talk to them and they just go, oh, no, this is me, I can't change, this is who I am, it's not going to work for me and all of that kind of stuff. Again, it's that mindset of this is me, I can't change, it's not going to work for me. It's that mindset that will scupper them completely from them being able to look into a completely different way of thinking and a different way of being able to take their life forward. Do you get that quite a lot with your clients? Or are they quite open minded?
Caroline Baber 08:30
Yeah, I don't really get that with my clients, because they've obviously come to me to make that change. So, they're ready to listen, they want to put in the work and there's normally an element or a level of discomfort that they want to change. And their own thinking isn't getting them out of that. So, not so much with that. But of course, in everyday life there are people that will say I can't change. I think a lot of it comes down to as well like blaming other things, external things or looking for something outside to fix us. When I get this, then I'll be happy or if this happens, or if this comes off and of course, that kind of thinking and that blame type of thinking just keeps us stuck. So, of course it's something that is a real problem. That's what kept me stuck for a long time as well. For me, it was that refusing to listen, I think, not wanting to hear that there was a better way. Stubbornly carrying on down the same path and having that checklist of when I get all of this done, or when I've done this, then everything will be great when I've made this perfect, then it would be fantastic. Of course, I got to a point where I had all of those things and there was something missing. That was where I had to look at myself to change and change my own thinking and my own behaviour. But it can be quite hard to firstly recognize that and then do something about it. But I don't think I've ever met anyone that's been down that road and regretted it.
Bonny Snowdon 10:13
No. We did a huge amount of talking, didn't we, within those 16 days? Spending 16 full days with a group of people, at the time you think, oh, it's just 16 days, but actually, it's a very long time to spend in literally from 10 until 5. I absolutely agree. I can't remember whether I mentioned, when I was working for corporate, probably back I think it was 2013. This was when I first cottoned on to that there was something called coaching, I didn't even know there was a thing, I didn't realize it was a thing back then. I had moved up in the corporate ladder to become a senior manager. I had a team that was probably about, I don't know, 15, or something in the team, working sort of design, account management, print, that kind of stuff. I was the studio manager. What happens, I think, when you grow in a position, you take on what all of the other managers do. You kind of see, it's almost like what you do, as I say, this is this is how this team is going to work. I tell you what to do and you do as I say, and if you don't do as I say, then that's not good. I was so passionate about my role, but what I hadn't realized was that my passion was actually coming through as being quite aggressive at times. People listen to me now and they go, Bonny, don't you know, that's rubbish and I said, well, that's how I am, I got a very passionate personality, I do get really passionate about stuff. I had gone on a dressage training day, it was called inspiring minds and it was one day, and it was to help my riding. We had all of these NLP techniques within it. It was the Circle of Excellence, but it wasn't, it was the magic button, we had some swishing stuff, we had all sorts of things in there. I came away from there, thinking, oh, my goodness, this has just blown my mind for one, but totally changed how I now feel about things. At the same time, we were having one of those dreaded 360s in my work, and it came back. The feedback I got from my peers, and the people in my team was really not very good at all. It was I either change my behaviour, my attitude, or I go. That's a really hard thing to do. And, um, you know, so I changed, I changed my attitude, I changed my behaviour. It was all from that one day of doing this, you know, NLP techniques, coaching, whatever, it totally and utterly changed my whole outlook on life. Obviously, here, here I am now, and it's a really, really powerful, powerful thing. I suspect that you probably went through quite a similar thing when you were having to think about how am I going to change? Can you share a little bit of your journey?
Caroline Baber 13:23
Yeah, sure. I totally agree with you. I think NLP is unbelievably powerful and I knew absolutely nothing about it before I had my own experience with it. I think like you're saying, sometimes it takes that level of pain to kickstart that desire to actually change something. For me, I was working 80-hour weeks, and almost I think, we can get so busy, that there's no time to reflect that we don't give ourselves that quiet space to actually stop and think and reflect on our journey and look at ourselves, I suppose. So, for me, I was just carrying on, working myself into the ground, and I suppose I'd have quite a lot of, I don't know, if you believe in the universe and fate and all of that kind of thing. But I had quite a few what I would say now were the little warnings that I just ignored like just bull-headed, they carried on down the same path, and I had a bad accident on a client's horse where it threw itself over backwards on top of me and it broke my acetabulum, my hip socket. I had the time off work. So, I think it was three months of on crutches and had a big competition after this break that I was planning on getting straight back on my stallions, taking them to the show, and it never occurred to me that there'd be any reason why I couldn't do that. After I felt I was okay to start riding again, I went to get back on a horse and had all its saddle and bridle on to get down to the arena. I didn't feel any worry about the thought of riding. But as soon as it came to putting my first semester, I physically couldn't do it. It's like there was something completely stopping me and I just stood there and cried, and I couldn't make myself get on the walls and being quite a stubborn, determined sort of person, I persevered and forced myself to get on the horses. Because I thought, gosh, I can't not ride this is part of my, my job. I realized that I was almost going to recreate the accident again, I ride a lot of young horses, and I could feel myself through, I suppose of fear and unable to relax or let the horse go forwards, I was holding on to the reins, and the horse that had broken my hip socket had shot backwards and thrown itself over on top of me. Because I had that in my head, the thought that it was going to happen again, I was always recreating that scenario. I obviously recognized that it was a big problem and I spoke to a couple of friends and a friend of mine, who was also a professional trainer, he said to me, you have to go and see this woman, she's amazing and she was an NLP coach. I was so sceptical, but I was at the point where like you said where it was, if I don't sort this, I don't know what I'm going to do. So, I thought, okay, I'll try it. I went to see her. Her name's Cherie Russell. She's absolutely incredible. I went to see her and I was so sceptical, I thought this isn't going to work, but I'm going to go along with it. So, the first session, we ended up discussing my business a little bit and which direction it was going in and she helped me with a couple of business decisions. Then the second session, she helped me specifically with this issue of not being able to get on the horse, and not being able to ride and she used some NLP techniques. I honestly walked straight out there, went and got on a horse and felt completely normal, and I couldn't believe it, it was absolutely mind blowing. Through having those sessions, it was almost as if all the files in my mind had been slotted into place. It was like my eyes were suddenly open, I could see everything around me and realize that there were a lot of things that I needed to change. I think for me that experience was so powerful that I thought, after I'd started to work down the process of changing myself, I realized I wanted to be able to help my sports coaching clients by using these NLP techniques. So, that was how I got into training originally with the NLP and became a Master Practitioner and did the coaching. I was doing a bit of sports coaching, a bit of life coaching. But I've now gone completely down the life coaching route, I absolutely love it. So, my life has done a bit of a 180. But it's just absolutely amazing that it works and even when you don't think it's going to work, it works. That's been my experience with my clients as well, even if they're a bit sceptical, as long as they're willing, they've just got to be willing to try it, that then they have that experience as well.
Bonny Snowdon 18:50
Oh, that's brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It's funny, isn't it? You can be sceptical, but also open minded. Because you could have said, oh, no, it's not for me, bit of voodoo or whatever, weirdness. But being open minded and really wanting that help. But don't you feel as well that once you start going down that route, and you almost get exposed to all sorts of other people who are in that kind of arena, then you really start to look up. Like you, my whole life has completely changed. Because of how I've been working on me, on myself. I think it's one of the most important things that we can do as humans is to really, almost look inwards, and work out who we are, how we work, how we behave, how we interact with other people, because it just tells us so much about why things are going wrong, why things aren't working, why things are working brilliantly. Oh, it's amazing. I've put myself in that place where I'm meeting all of these different people that we've never met before. So, I'm having my star chart done this afternoon at two o'clock, and I'm so excited.
Caroline Baber 20:17
Wow, that sounds incredible. Oh, I love to hear how that goes.
Bonny Snowdon 20:21
I know, I'm so excited about it. So, you still ride?
Caroline Baber 20:25
I do still ride. So, I've got a couple of horses near my house. I own seven horses that's up in Northumberland. So, I still have horses, but I don't have a huge amount of time to ride them anymore. So, it's more of a hobby now, I just ride when I have the time, which actually, I really enjoy that, there’s no pressure, obviously, competing, and selling horses and training and constantly working in that environment, there's a lot of pressure to perform, to always be at your best. Actually, it's lovely to not have that anymore. I've had that for so much of my life and I think with any sports, competitive sports, that element of competition of course, it drives you, but it also is quite a lonely place to be when you're always competing against everyone, and your friends or people that you're competing against as well. It's lovely to not to not be in that in that field anymore.
Bonny Snowdon 21:32
Oh, that's really nice. We were talking, we've had some forwards and backwards messages and everything. You were telling me about, so your family is really creative, and arty, aren't they? And you're really creative as well.
Caroline Baber 21:48
I come from a really arty family. Yeah. So, my grandfather, my father's father was a commercial illustrator. He illustrated loads of well-known children's books. It was always in the family. So, my father was a graphic designer, and then my brother, he's a designer, a publisher, and does typography. My sister also did a graphic design degree. I always presumed that I would be an artist, it never really occurred to me to do anything else. I was going to go to university and do fine art, that was always my plan. I loved oil painting. As a teenager, I was just an absolute nightmare teenager from hell went completely off the rails who were more interested in partying, not interested in doing any work or college, couldn't be bothered to fill in my UCAS form to go to university. So, that's the reason I never went to university, never did art, I followed a completely different path and fell into working with horses. I had horses from the age of about 10. But it was never my intention to work with them. I think out of desperation my mother had spoken to a friend, she had said, oh, Sensei is looking for a groom. I said, okay, I'll go and do that, that sounds fine went and did that, thought that would be an easy job. I just carried on down that path and I am quite determined. So, once I started something, I didn't want to be proven wrong or almost step back and look that maybe I hadn't made the right decision, which of course, I could have changed it. But I was too stubborn to do that. So, I carried on down that path. When I was 20, I set up my first business and just carried on down that route. It was only like I said, through having that accident and getting to a point where I'd achieved all of this stuff and I had a beautiful farm and I designed my own house, which would have built and had a lovely lifestyle, but suddenly it's like, oh, maybe I took the wrong fork in the road. It's really difficult to actually admit that I think, it's quite a big thing, especially, for me, my career was such a big part of my identity, people knew who I am, you have recognition within that field. So, to then stop and say this isn't right. For me, it was quite a big thing. I needed that slap around the face really to actually make those changes. I think everybody needs to get to some level of discomfort to want to change.
Bonny Snowdon 24:47
Again, I think it takes a huge amount of courage. Because it would be so easy, wouldn't? It would be so easy just to go well, I've got this lovely house. I've got this lovely life. I'm just going to sit here but actually, happiness is just so much more than a lovely house and land and everything, isn't it? You can be happy anywhere, whether you live in a mud hut or whether you live in a massive mansion. If you haven't got the happiness, then what's the point, really?
Caroline Baber 25:17
Yeah, I totally agree. I think happiness like anything it comes and goes in waves, nothing's linear. But for me, the biggest gift that I've got through changing my lifestyle is some level of inner peace and that feeling of serenity. I wouldn't trade that for anything. It's absolutely incredible. I think once you have a taste of it, you don't want to go back to that constant madness of working every second of the day and driving yourself and never stepping back to question what's actually driving you? For me, it was actually fear. But I couldn't see that in myself, I would have said to you a few years ago, if you'd asked me, I'd have said, I'm completely fearless. I have no fear. But actually, it was nonsense. I think it's opening a can of worms, isn't it? Once you start down that journey of reflection and looking at yourself, it opens up such a huge can of worms and I had to do the work to actually get there to recognize it and to be able to change it. But I had no idea before it was just, I kept myself so busy that I never had to stop and think about what it was that was driving me.
Bonny Snowdon 26:37
Yeah, and I don't think you're alone at all in that. I know I've had very similar. I think we just, tenacious, we've got high levels of a bounce back, when something happens, it's just right, dust yourself off, off we go again. All of those little things, they don't niggle away, well, for me, they didn't niggle away, because I just pushed them into a little drawer at the back of my mind and there they stayed. I say no, I don't need to don't need to tell anybody about anything. No, no, no, everything's fine and blah, blah, blah. Actually, I really did. Because they've been kind of pushed away and it's almost like I didn't want to admit that they'd happen. Well, I had a very happy marriage, I had a very, very happy marriage and sadly, when my husband's father died, he then became incredibly depressed. But was the sort of person who really honestly completely believed that he could not change who he was, this is me, this is what I do. He was really unhappy in his job. He loved his job, but he hated the routine, but he thrived on routine. So, it was like, his life was just this like, no happiness. He wasn't a particularly nice person when he was depressed. It caused a lot of unhappiness. It was almost like, when I married him, I took my vows very seriously. My sister kept on saying, you've got to leave him and I was like, No, for better for worse. I married him and this is what I have to do. All of this unhappiness was just shoved away. It was like a little, I don't know, a drawer or a carpet. I just was like, we just put that into there and we don't talk about that, but don't talk about it, it hasn't happened. But it got to the point where it just started metaphorically literally just started to come up. Through panic attacks through all of those sorts of things. You can't hide stuff. You've got to let it out. But you've got to let it out in the right place and with the right person, and I'm guessing your clients, they'll have that amazing trust with you. You do a lot of hypnotherapies as well, don't you?
Caroline Baber 29:10
I do hypnotherapy as well. But yes, mostly NLP coaching. I think the trust is really important. I've had people come to me that have said, I don't need hypnotherapy and that's fine. But quite often a few sessions in once you develop that trust will someone though then and say, do you think you could try hypnotizing me. Because people then, once you've tried it, it then opens your mind to all of these things and that was what I found. If someone had said to me don't be hypnotized, go and have NLP I would have said absolutely no chance. But once I'd had it, I wanted more of it. Unlike anything when you have something and it works, or you get a good experience from it, you want more of it, and I had a very similar experience to you, Bonnie with what you were just discussing. I think what I found very hard to accept was that you can't change other people that they have to want to change themselves and that all we can do is change ourselves. Of course, that does change the way people react towards us. But ultimately, we have no control over what other people do or think or say. That was quite hard for me because I was a complete control freak. So, I tried to control every element of my life, not in a horrible way, but in a way that if I make this person happy, then they'll be okay and then I'll be okay. It's exhausting trying to live like that, where you're trying to control every tiny aspect of yourself. I've since learned that people pleasing just prevents the other person from growing but it was just so ingrained in me, I was a real people pleaser, and I was trying to make everyone else happy, I just thought that then everything will be perfect. If everyone else is happy around me, I couldn't deal with the highs and lows of other people's emotions or accepting that they have their own agenda or thoughts or needs and wants. That little thing of letting go and practicing acceptance has been so key to me to having that inner peace and serenity, being able to accept everything else around me and let go of control, not controlling, not trying to change the outcome of things because that creates that anxiety of trying to not accepting that the outcome will be what the outcome will be. I was always trying to manipulate it, change it, change other people. Of course, I couldn't do that. It was exhausting. It gave me no inner peace whatsoever, because I was just moving from the next thing, to the next thing, to the next thing. Being able to let go and just live life on life's terms is so liberating. It's just the most incredible way of living.
Bonny Snowdon 32:07
Yeah, I agree. I have a coach; I think I will put you in touch with Susie pearl. Oh, my goodness. She's the most amazing lady. In a really fantastic way, she knows everybody. Oh, yes. Paul McCartney. She knows everybody and she was at Russell Brand's house a couple of weeks ago. I was like, oh, my God, this is fantastic. But she has been working with me for a year and a bit. That feeling of anxiety and I know, anxiety is the most horrible thing to have. It's crippling, you can't breathe and you've got that constant feeling of just dread in your body. There's always a reason for it. Anxiety doesn't just happen out of anywhere and there's always a reason for it. But for me, I would get anxious, I'm not a very anxious person. I don't particularly worry about stuff. But there are certain things that trigger me. Trigger is quite a bit of a buzzword at the minute anyway isn't it. There were certain things that would trigger me, there were certain elements in my work life that would trigger me, and just silly things. I've learned and Susie has helped me with NLP techniques and all that kind of stuff. I've got to the point now, and I hadn't realized I was doing it and I was discussing it with her yesterday morning. She was like, oh my god, Bonny, that is just brilliant. If something triggers me and I get upset by something, I can literally just take a deep breath and it's gone. It's taken a year and a half or whatever of really hard work to get to that point. But how wonderful to get to a point where something upsets you, cycad a man from the village. My naughty dog, she's going through a phantom pregnancy again at the minute. I'm loath to have a spade because she has hip dysplasia. I don't want to put weight on blah, blah, blah. Anyway, she had been clipped the day before. So, she'd gone from being massively woolly to really skinny and her collar didn't fit and she's got like a halter thing. They both came off. She ran to this guy's little Westie. I honestly think she was trying to play but a big dog running up to a little dog is always a bit scary. He picked the dog up she then jumped up and he was just like, oh my gosh. Anyway, he came round in the evening and it was bit confrontational. I got really, really, really upset about it. He made out that my dog had bitten his but she actually hadn't, and it was all fine. I said, look, I’m sorry, I've taken precautions, I've got this, that and the other, she can't get out. Now, I am really sorry. Before I probably would have come into the house, and I would have been physically shaking, because I hate confrontation, I hate anything like that. I came into the house, and I just was like, sorted that out, big deep breath, on with my evening. I could then just have a nice evening, make my tea, do some drawing, do whatever I needed to do and it wasn't then hanging over me thinking, is he going to come back? Is he going to call the police? What happens if this? What happens if he talks to my neighbours? Oh, gosh, what this, that and the other? Just gone, sorted, gone, don't need to think about it. That is what is so brilliant about what you do, because you help people be able to build strategies within their heads to be able to cope with little mundane occurrences like that, but also the massive, massive things that happen in life. That's a huge thing to be able to do to help people.
Caroline Baber 36:09
Yeah, it's horrible, that feeling of anxiety. A bit like you're saying it's created by that living in the wreckage of our future. So, projecting those disastrous scenarios into the future, for example, that you were talking about, the worry of what if the man runs the place and all those kinds of things, and that creates that anxiety. So, by being able to stay in the present, it takes it away. It takes practice, it's not something that you can just click your fingers and it's gone. But I think by recognizing it as well, that really helps to change that because you'll start to realize I'm doing it again, I'm projecting that into the future, it's not happening now, right now I'm fine, and be able to take it away. So, I meditate every morning, I think I said to you, and for me that just helps me to stay in the present and I can then start my day with that clear, quiet mind. So, then I'm able to think more creatively, rather than having a million thoughts swirling around in my head, what if? What if this happens? What if I don't do this? I need to do this. It took a lot of practice to be able to get good at meditating and be able to do it for longer and longer periods of time. Initially, I found it really difficult because I had that mindset of I'm too busy for this. So, I'm too busy to meditate. I don't have time for this nonsense. A lot of it was my preconceived ideas as to whatever it was, I couldn't see any benefit, or why I would need it. I was just willing to keep trying. Eventually I got it. Once I started to get a taste of that quiet mind, being able to just let my emotions pass me by, and the stillness in my mind, I then became completely hooked on it. If I don't do it, obviously, I'm not perfect. Sometimes I don't do it. If I don't, then by lunchtime, I'm having a much worse day than when I've done it. When I do it everything's just a lot easier. Because I don't have a million thoughts going around in my head. I found it's such a powerful tool and actually is such a great tool to be able to change those subconscious thoughts. There aren't many times that we have that in our day-to-day life where we're in that slower brainwave state where we're able to access those thoughts. So, for me it's something I do every day. Of course, it's not for everyone, not everybody wants to meditate, but I find it a really powerful tool.
Bonny Snowdon 38:49
Yeah, gosh, absolutely. I think when you have an active mind when you first start meditating, it can be quite you just get thoughts coming in everywhere. I was doing it on holiday, I found that this is a very bizarre thing. I found I can float; I can float really well. I think it's because I've got quite a lot of buoyancy. But literally in the pool, and when you're submerged and it's over your ears, you can't hear anything really. All you can hear is your breathing. So, I was just spending my holiday floating around this pool. Oh God, it was honestly incredible. But then I tried to do it. I was at the pool yesterday. I go to this, like country club thing and it's got a natural pool outside. When it's a bit colder people don't tend to go in it. I went with my daughter and I said I'm just going to try a bit of floating. So, I’m there floating around the pool when there was nobody there and she took a video of me and I was like oh my god, I look like a dead body. But having that, getting rid of all of that external noise and just concentrating on your breath and just allowing yourself to be so peaceful and calm. Again, Susie introduced me to meditation. It's not something I practice every single day for a certain period of time. But I will definitely, it definitely happens for, I don't know, five minutes every day, I will have this either before I go to sleep, or when I wake up or something like that. It is just brilliant to be able to quiet your mind and not have to think about anything other than just whether you're breathing in and breathing out. Again, we should be teaching this in schools, we should be having coaches in schools and teaching children how to, build these strategies to be able to cope with because I think the worst time in a person's life is through those teenage years and it's horrific.
Caroline Baber 41:00
Yeah, I completely agree.
Bonny Snowdon 41:02
Coaching, NLP, meditation, all should be part of the curriculum.
Caroline Baber 41:08
Yeah, I agree. There are so many simple little tools that we can use to improve our well-being and our mindset. They're available to everybody, there are things that we can just do for free that everybody is able to do, that has access to, but not everybody knows about them. That I completely agree with you, to be able to have that in schools for teenagers would be absolute incredible. I think they are starting to introduce some mindfulness in schools. I know my son's school they've had some lessons on mindfulness and some practices that they can do before their exams and that sort of thing to help them. So, I think it is changing. I think that kind of thing it takes a while for it to become the norm.
Bonny Snowdon 41:57
Yeah, well, I hope it does, I really hope it does. So, if you were to give us some advice, because I have a lot of students, obviously I teach people how to draw and that's great. But actually, the biggest part of what I do is around that mindset and confidence part. Because if you don't have the right mindset it's going to be really difficult to get where you want to be anyway, because you're not going to believe you can. You can be the most terrible artists in the world and have a belief that you're amazing and do incredibly well because that belief and that confidence, it grows on people. I'm saying terrible artists I mean that, but mindset and confidence is so big. There's a lot of my students who really struggle, or find it challenging to be able to understand that they can actually change how their mind works. If you had somebody in front of you saying, h, no, this is me, I can't change things. If you've got any advice that you could give somebody just to, I guess, guide them into that direction where they could do some work. I know, it's not going to be overnight, and it is hard work. But if you've got any advice that you could give to somebody who's thinking I'd quite like to do this, but I just don't think I could do it.
Caroline Baber 43:24
I think the first thing that I normally would look at would be what's the belief that's driving that because there's obviously some sort of fear that's causing that worry that they're not going to be good enough or the fear of failing. So, looking at that belief, where does it come from? What is it that's driving you so for example, that perfectionism often comes from a belief that perhaps you're not good enough or that you're unlovable, and so then you're driven in the hope that if I make everything perfect, then I'll either prove to myself and everyone else that I am good enough that I am lovable, or you hold back and don't try these new things for fear of failing? So, I think recognizing it in ourselves is so important, because once you recognize it, then you're able to start changing it but unless you recognize it for what it is, and are able to shine the light on that shadow, it won't go away. I sort of try and think when you get to the end of your life are you going to really look back and think oh, I wish I hadn't tried doing that drawing because I made a real fool of myself. It's just a tiny little piece of the masterpiece that is your life. So, for me, I had to look at a lot of where my beliefs came from, because they were driving me to make everything perfect. But I had a lot of fear around it, those cause those fears, that fear of exposing yourself and it's all in our own heads. No one else thinks that it's only us that think it. I think a lot of people drive themselves to burn out doing that, but also, holding back not trying to draw and like you said, how amazing to be able to just try it and see maybe prove yourself wrong. But often those subconscious beliefs they don't actually line up with what we consciously know to be true. But they're so deep within us and we pick them up in childhood but they're driving us without us even realizing it. So, just taking that little bit of time to reflect and think, what am I afraid of? What's stopping me trying? That's the first step, then being able to start to work and just change that belief, work by recognizing it. No idea if that makes any sense, Bonny?
Bonny Snowdon 45:54
No, definitely. I've got the dog barking in the other room and I'm trying desperately to text all of my children who are in the house, saying, please, can you shut the dog up and there's no response from anybody and I can hear my son coming downstairs.
Caroline Baber 46:06
Your dogs a lot quieter than my dogs. My dogs you would know if they were barking, they make such a racket. I'm sure every neighbour in town hears them.
Bonny Snowdon 46:16
What dogs have you got?
Caroline Baber 46:18
I've got two Smooth fox terriers and they are real characters. So, I've always had German pointers before and then we got a Smooth fox terrier, and they were rare breed. So, I agreed with the breeder that I'd have one litter of puppies. Then of course, it was, oh, we don't want to sell them we want to keep. It’s like 101 Dalmatians. At one point, I had six puppies, the mom and a German pointer in the house. We then ended up keeping three puppies and the German pointer and it was just chaos, because terriers loved fighting. So, they were always scrapping with each other. When we lost the German pointer, I've I just kept two of the Terriers. My brother has got one of them in Amsterdam. She lives in most incredible city life. She has a little crate on the front of their bicycle that she goes in so they can cycle around Amsterdam with her in it. She has the most fantastic time. She's so spoiled. I get little photos of her enjoying snuggled in bed whilst they're having coffee and, on their balcony, and that kind of thing. I think she has the most incredible life. Then I've got the mum and the son, and they get on fine. But I found the mother and the daughter just ripped bits off each other all the time, which is actually incredibly stressful. But it's a real terrier thing.
Caroline Baber 47:42
They are pretty good. They're good fun. You have to have a sense of humour, to have smooth fox terriers, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 47:42
No.
Bonny Snowdon 47:47
I think we have one in the village and what better is a wirehaired fox terrier, but I think they just looked such nice dogs. If you were to draw a dog, you probably draw that, they're just like a look at each corner, aren't they? They're just a really nicely balanced dog.
Caroline Baber 48:06
They're really good fun as well. They love children. They're quite bouncy, mine sort of jump up and down like they're on pogo stick. So, jump three or four foot in the air just up and down on the spot. But they're great dogs. They used to be really popular in England 100 years ago, I think they were the most popular breed of dog. But now they're a rare breed. I think it's only sort of 90 Puppies born a year in the UK compared to sort of 10s of 1000s of the more popular breeds like the Labradors and things, But I think having had a few of them, I can see why they're now a rare bread. Absolute nightmare when you have more than one of them. But they're good fun, and they're lovely, friendly dogs.
Bonny Snowdon 48:47
Yeah. Oh, I can't. I can't imagine not having a life without dogs. I can't, I really can't. I've got three soon to be four,
Caroline Baber 48:59
Gosh, your right. They all get to the solo, aren't they? They make me get out of bed and go and take them for a walk. I wouldn't have got out of bed early this morning, go for dog walk if I didn't have to. I'd have rather stayed in bed a bit longer. But actually, as soon as I'm out. I never regret it. I'll never regret going for a walk. It's always worse than short term. When I get up this morning, I took for a walk about half past five and I thought, oh god, I've got to take the dog to walk. As soon as I'm out it's so beautiful and peaceful in the morning when no one else is around. I love it.
Bonny Snowdon 49:33
Yeah, I agree. I've had a real struggle recently with my knee and then my back with the dog because I used to walk them twice a day and walk in three quite big dogs it was a bit of a struggle. So, I'm trying to get back into that with my cycling. I've also started doing the swimming, so I'm swimming. I've decided that I think swimming is my thing. I always used to love swimming as a child, my dad so I need to write a book about my dad. So, my dad in his life has built 1, 2, 3, 4 swimming pools.
Caroline Baber 50:08
Wow.
Bonny Snowdon 50:09
Like proper big, big swimming pools, 20 metre swimming pool. Big swimming pools. So, he built one. We had a farm when I was growing up and he built a pool there. So, I grew up on a farm and we swam, and my dad was such a good swimmer, I think he swam in this Swiss team is Swiss. I think he swam, he used to fly and everything. So, he taught us all to swim from a very early age. I used to swim for my school and I used to sort of swim in the school team. Then I think I swam a couple of times for the county, and absolutely loved swimming. Then all of a sudden, I had horses and everything, but swimming, you have to take yourself off day into the swimming pool and blah, blah, blah. Just recently, my sister does wild swimming, the cold water? Well, everybody says, I'm in Australia, and we just call it swimming. In England, you don't normally swim in a river or a pond.
Caroline Baber 51:06
No, it's pretty wild in English weather, isn't? Going into a pond or a lake?
Bonny Snowdon 51:11
Yeah. But I've suddenly sort of discovered that because I didn't do anything. I don't do anything for myself. Apart of my drawing, I don't really have any hobbies or I read and watch Netflix and whatever. I thought you know what I've joined this spar, I had to be on a waitlist for quite a long time. They have a pond, which is probably about half a mile away from the spar which I have to walk to. You are literally swimming with ducks and fish and [Inaudible]. It is in the middle of nowhere. I went for the first time and managed to get in and its very little ladder down in. I did my swim and everything. I was like, oh my god, this is just fantastic. Nobody around at all. You had to get changed in a bird hide.
Caroline Baber 51:17
Do you wear a wetsuit?
Bonny Snowdon 51:42
No, I was just in my swimming costume. They gave me a float, which I was quite pleased about actually then got out but had to do this very ungainly kind of trying to get out and then kind of was rolling along trying to get up and do this anyway. Then when I posted on Instagram, I had people going, oh my god, Bonny, you're so good. You did that on your own, that's really dangerous. I was like and even contemplated that I wasn't going to be able to get in, let alone get out. There was nobody there. But it was the peace and the calm, and just the noise of the water and just being in the water. Because I've got quite a lot of joint tissues, all of the pain just goes away. It's just the most wonderful thing. So, I think swimming is going to be my thing. But in like a natural pool, they have a natural pool that's fed. They've got a beautiful indoor pool, it's hot, chlorinated everything. Then outside, they've got this little natural pool where you can do links, but it's fed by a pond with fishing and plants and there's no chlorine in it or anything like that. They've got these lovely Roman steps down into it and you are lulled into a false sense of insecurity, because you go down one step and it's up to your ankles, you go down the next step, and it's creeping up your carbs, you go on the next step, and it's a bit further up, you go down the next step, and you're up to your neck. But it's lovely. So, I'm hoping that doing more swimming and getting my joints going a bit better, I'll be able to start my walking again. But I think just being out in nature and fresh air is wonderful, isn't it?
Caroline Baber 53:45
Yeah, absolutely gives you that peace of mind, doesn't it? Just you can look around you and concentrate on the beautiful things around you rather than what's going on in your head. That sounds incredible. That lake with the lilies and the fish and things and I'm not sure it's for me, I'm not good with cold water.
Bonny Snowdon 54:03
Well, I didn't realize that I don't know, I was thinking I’ll go for a lovely swim and then afterwards, I was sitting on the side just I'd had about half an hour moment to myself. The fish actually jumped out of the pond and grabbed flies and then I didn’t even register that there might be fish in there. But now it's something I want to do much more but definitely swimming. I've been twice this week hoping to go again today. But yeah, I think it's finding your thing, isn't it? It's finding something that you really enjoy doing that you can do on a regular basis without it feeling like a chore.
Caroline Baber 54:44
Yeah, absolutely. I think especially when you're sitting down a lot during the day. It's nice to do that bit of physical exercise as well. I like doing the dog walking or going to ride the horses or whatever it is and I feel like I've done something and it's not a chore. I do a bit of yoga as well. A friend of mine is a yoga teacher. That's always great fun. We have real laughs that I've never seen in all stiff as you. I moulded into riding a horse position. So, I don't have any other flexibility in any other direction. But I'm getting there. It's like anything. You've just got to keep persevering and it gets easier.
Bonny Snowdon 55:20
Yeah, you'll have your legs around your neck in no time.
Caroline Baber 55:23
I don't know, we've had a few sessions where they've had to roll me off the floor. But it is getting better. It's getting better. I handle stuff on the floor for a while. So, yeah, it's quite good fun. I do enjoy that. I did try a bit of swimming. We joined a gym near us and I quite enjoy the swimming. But I've got quite long hair. I can't bother to wash and dry my hair afterwards. So, that was my laziness.
Bonny Snowdon 55:48
Oh, gosh, well, I put my head in the water yesterday. So, I was doing my floating. Then it dried and it dried in a really weird way, I was with my daughter. My hair is a bit funny at the moment anyway, but it dried and it had this like wave on my fringe. So, I have this really funny little wave. So, they got straightness at this spar. My daughter was like, "What are you doing mom?" I said, "I'm just going to straight and my fringe." She's was just like, "Don't bother. It's not going to look any better."
Caroline Baber 56:21
Kids are bright on a level, aren’t they? I get told that, my son will say, I hope you not wearing that to school today. But I think that's part of the joy of having children is being able to embarrass a little bit. So, my son bought these amazing fish flops on Amazon. Have you seen them? They're like a sort of rubber flip flop that it looks like a fish. They're absolutely hilarious. So, he bought them and he still wears them around behind our home with his dressing gown on but he wouldn’t wear them out and I got tired. I wasn't allowed to come to his school assembly in case I embarrassed it. So, I said I was going to turn up in the fish flops. But it was so tempting. I didn't do it because I thought you might not get with free credit. But I was very tempted. I think it would have made my day.
Bonny Snowdon 57:07
Can you imagine, I bet the other parents with a loved it?
Caroline Baber 57:10
Oh, I think so. Is that you know my son's 11. He's 12 this year, and he's at that age where suddenly it's, drop me off here and please don't come into school with me go away you're embarrassing. Don't speak to me in front of my friends. They're all giving each other the best bumps outside school and they will speak like gangbusters. It's very fun.
Bonny Snowdon 57:31
Is he at secondary school?
Caroline Baber 57:32
He is starting in September.
Bonny Snowdon 57:34
Oh, gosh.
Caroline Baber 57:36
They get worse.
Bonny Snowdon 57:37
Yeah. Well, so he'll be in year six, won't he? So, he'll have been like the old one and now he'll be the young one. So, they completely change, don't they? Oh, gosh. My youngest has just left school we get his A level result on the 17th I think, of August. So, that really, he's wants to test, tracks driving test. He wants to work on it. He's always wants to work on a farm and then when we're on holiday, my my big sister, she came and joined us with her husband it was so nice. She was like well, "What are you going to do" And said "Oh, well, I think I'm going to be electrician" She was like, "Oh, you always wanted to be a farmer." Well, yeah, I did. So, she went well. "Why didn't you be a farmer?" Oh, "I didn't know I could be" So she was like "Well, why not?" So, he's looking into doing farming again now which will be lovely because he always got it. As a two-year-old I don’t know whether your sons the same, but right from being a baby up to well, I think he even does farm, whatever it is now. He's got computer games that are farm where you farm and you're literally doing furrows. I'm just farming. I'm just ploughing.
Bonny Snowdon 57:53
I think it's Farming Simulator is one of the games.
Bonny Snowdon 58:51
Farming Simulator.
Caroline Baber 58:54
Yeah, they can sort of feed the cows and put hay in and all that kind of thing. My son was always obsessed with tractors when he was younger. He seemed to have gotten thrown out of that phase at the moment. But we've got some friends that live in Jersey, and they've got a jersey cattle farm there that they milk cows. We went to visit them last summer and he was just blown away by it. He loved all the cows and said he couldn't wait to come back. He was like, "Can I work there? Can I come back and work here" So he absolutely loved it. It's fantastic. It is incredible, isn't it when you go to a working farm, see everything that goes into it to running it.
Bonny Snowdon 59:31
Oh, God, definitely. We've got lots of we have lots of arable around us. We do all of the McCain potatoes and everything around us, which is very exciting when we see the potatoes going in and the McCain bags. It's always like when we go for a walk he'll bail out. Yes, well, the wheats ready now we'll know we've got another couple of weeks ago and he knows all about that stuff. Hes really, really interested in it. His bedroom overlooks the field. So, when he was little, he just used to sit on there on the windowsill looking at the combines, just fascinated by them more. So, hopefully we'll go into it because I think it's really important to do something that you really like to do.
Caroline Baber 1:00:17
Yeah, I think that's amazing. My son, Sam always knows everything about how everything works and he takes on all this information and remembers it. He'll just tell me; this is how it works. This is how such and such works and I think it's amazing. Their retention for information on the children is unbelievable.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:35
I have everything in my diary, and I've got reminders, and I still forget stuff.
Caroline Baber 1:00:41
Yeah. I do that as well.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:43
I think it's getting old.
Caroline Baber 1:00:46
Sadly, I think so. Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:49
Oh, do you know, I can't believe we've been talking for an hour, I could just chat and chat. It's been so nice talking to you. I think I've mentioned before, I've got some stuff they are in the pipeline, I still got to write it. But I'm hoping to take on, or I'm hoping to work with some coaches in this particular thing, and honest, I'll give you far more information. But I'd really love to be able to work with you. I think it's great. Also, I put all of your information and everything down. If anybody wants to get in touch with you hopefully, if somebody wants to coach or anything like that, you'd be able to either point them in the right direction or help them or whatever. But it's been so nice talking to you.
Caroline Baber 1:01:33
Oh, thank you, Bonny. It's been amazing chatting to you. I've really enjoyed it. I think we've got a few good couple more hours of chatting left in us.
Bonny Snowdon 1:01:42
It's funny, isn't it? Once you get going, I think when you come on to a podcast, it's like, oh, gosh, what are we going to talk about? We got any sort of pre formulated questions, everything, which I never have, because I'm so unorganized. But then when you get to the end of it, you've slipped into a little bit more comfortable just chatting, you start to get some really interesting things that come out, I think and everybody's got their own amazing story to tell. It's just been really, really lovely talking to you today and listening about how you've come from, grown and I think as well, it's really inspiring for other people to hear that you can almost have everything that you want in life. But that main element missing is that real happiness and contentment and inner peace. You obviously made some massive decisions, got through it and have come out the other end. I think that's really inspiring.
Caroline Baber 1:02:36
Thank you. Yes, it certainly is possible. Actually, I wouldn't change a second of that journey because everything that's happened it's all been stuff that I've grown from and learned from. So, it's hard when you're going through it, but it's worth it when you get that feeling of inner peace and serenity. I've absolutely loved chatting to you Bonny, and I would love to do some work with you in the future. That'd be incredible.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:04
Awesome. Brilliant. Well, I'll let you go. I don't think you've had one sip of tea throughout this whole conversation.
Caroline Baber 1:03:10
But I have actually, I've nearly finished my cup while we've been chatting.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:13
When I was talking and waving my hands around, you have been sipping it.
Caroline Baber 1:03:18
I'm an expert tea drinker.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:21
Oh, well, it's been an absolute joy. Thank you so much for joining me. I thank you. We'll chat again really soon.
Caroline Baber 1:03:28
Lovely. Thank you so much Bonny, it's been lovely chatting.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:31
All right.
Caroline Baber 1:03:33
Bye.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:34
Bye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those you know who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time.
