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Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking I've known my next guest for a few years now. We seem to have quite a similar personality. According to her mum, we look like twins. But now I've had my hair cut and changed my glasses we don't. And she is very well known. She's a Derwent ambassador, fellow colour pencil artists but also doubles in all sorts of different mediums. Lovely, person, all round, wonderful person. I'm really delighted to have been chatting to and now bringing you the interview with the fabulous Helen Carter. So, nice to see you. We've chatted but we haven't chatted in ages.
Helen Carter 01:58
It's a couple of years I think, since we've had a chat, chat. It was a pretty long time ago, pre pandemic, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 02:08
Yeah, definitely. But I know we keep in touch over Instagram and stuff like that. But it's so nice to see you.
Helen Carter 02:16
I know, and it's so nice to see you too, you got a different look.
Bonny Snowdon 02:20
I’ve got a different look now, so your mom can't say that we look like twins anymore.
Helen Carter 02:24
I did find that amusing. I think we had the same glasses at one point, didn't we?
Bonny Snowdon 02:31
Yeah. So, I've just gone completely different, you know?
Helen Carter 02:35
Yeah. I’m liking the new look; the short hair must be an absolute dream.
Bonny Snowdon 02:46
Well, I've always had it short or long. And the problem is, when I had it long before I was really thin. And probably I don't know, I used to style it and make myself look lovely and everything. And then I had long hair when I was really fat. All I did was I just put it up in a bone and it was just frizzy and it was just nothing really. And what was good about that was that it didn't go in my eyes. There was one point where I was like, I can't bear my hair around my face, I just can’t bare it touching. Then I had it cut and then had to get used to it touching my face and everything. And I've got used to it and it's fine. Actually, when I wash it, it looks like this. When I go swimming it dries and it looks like this. When I got in the rain, it looks like this. So, it's fine. It doesn't need an awful lot of whatever and it's okay. And then my glasses I went to a new optician. They only had really weird glasses and so that's why I ended up with two pairs of really weird glasses. But actually, I really like them.
Helen Carter 03:57
I think they're fine. They're totally on trend, aren't they?
Bonny Snowdon 04:01
We’re not intentionally from my point of view. Well, I just went in. I was like, I just want glasses. And actually, these ones are much deeper.
Helen Carter 04:12
Yeah, I can see loads more.
Bonny Snowdon 04:17
Yeah, so they're really comfortable.
Helen Carter 04:21
You ended up with two pairs? Right? Did you get a reading pair or an intermediate pair?
Bonny Snowdon 04:27
So, these ones are reading ones and then these ones are for computer work. And then the ones they've done as like a very focal. I can't really get on with them.
Helen Carter 04:44
You have to persevere.
Bonny Snowdon 04:46
I know. But when I'm drawing, there's only like that amount of [Inaudible].
Helen Carter 04:52
Absolutely yeah, just wear them for your daily work or daily sort of wandering around.
Bonny Snowdon 05:03
Because I can see all of the tiny details and everything Im like oh.
Helen Carter 05:08
Its overload on your brain, isn't it? Because everything is in such sharp focus when you get a really good pair of glasses and you think, oh, this has given me a bit of a headache.
Bonny Snowdon 05:17
And I'm thinking all my drawings must have been shit before.
Helen Carter 05:19
Not likely. I just went to the opticians myself too, because I've been wearing very focused for many years, I'm practically blind without any glasses. And I ended up coming out with I think exactly same glasses that I went in with in terms of the frame. The prescription is different, but the frame is different. But I also have an order which I haven't got yet, a pair of not reading glasses, but they called them intermediate glasses, which is going to give me back that really close up view because I work pretty much with my nose on the page. I've always done that even when I could see.
Bonny Snowdon 06:00
That's why these ones are quite good because it means that I can sit back and I can see. And then when I get right up close, I can't have to do that. I'm drawing.
Helen Carter 06:16
Like put your glasses right.
Bonny Snowdon 06:22
Yeah. And then looking at you, but these ones fit really nicely. I really like the fit of these ones. The other ones they've got quite a curly ear and I've got very sensitive ears and they hurt a little bit, so I just need to get them changed.
Helen Carter 06:35
You’re a delicate little flower. That's what you are.
Bonny Snowdon 06:38
Aren’t I? But yeah, interesting because I usually go to Specsavers.
Helen Carter 06:46
Right.
Bonny Snowdon 06:47
I found them all. I don't know. I didn't really find the service that brilliant. I ended up going to Harrogate and going to this, what do you call it?
Bonny Snowdon 06:57
Yeah, independent. That's the word I’m thinking. And actually, their tests and everything were what Specsavers had 10 years ago. But they've come out and because I've got a prism on my other glasses. Right now, I can't see a prism in there at all. So, I've gone away from the prism, and I've had a lot less eyestrain now that I'm not using a prism. Because I think they were trying to bring my own I don't know what, maybe I was a bit cross eyed. But eyes change, don't they? But for me, I go and get my eyes checked. Let’s just say, come every couple of years. I'm going every sort of six months just to make sure that they're all okay.
Helen Carter 06:58
Independent
Bonny Snowdon 07:04
Well, I mean, it's your livelihood, isn't it? You've got to be able to see. We'll do what we do. You only get one pair of eyes, don't you?
Bonny Snowdon 07:46
You do?
Helen Carter 07:49
They're important.
Bonny Snowdon 07:53
Right. That's it then, bye. We’ve had a chat about eyes. Everybody knows about eyes. Honestly, it's so nice to see you and chat to you and everything not in person but actually having you. Because you're doing so much more now. And you're doing your drawing, but you're teaching because we talked about this a while ago, didn't we, the teaching side?
Helen Carter 08:16
Yes. And you gave me some very good advice, which was, for goodness’ sake, Helen just try it. And I think it took me six months to actually just try it. But I'm a bit of a worrier. So, I did as much kind of internal preparation as I could, and looked up. So, I don't have a lot of kit. So, what can I do with my phone and my iPad, that's all I have? How good could it be? How bad is it going to be? And so, there was an awful lot of research that went in. But yeah, I've just done my first online workshop with paying guests. And that was very nerve wracking, but I really enjoyed it. Having looked back at the footage, I can see where I need to make changes, a fixed focal length would be very useful. Because your hand gets in the way and the focus just changes and jumps to your knuckles, doesn't it? So that's a pain. But it was a learning experience for sure and I think the results from what I saw on the day, it was eight hours over two days. So, it was quite a long kind of couple of stints. I think what I saw was fantastic. And there was one lady there who had not drawn before where actually she drew in March with me on a drafting film, workshop in person. And she then hadn't drawn again since March and she come back to me, which was very nice. And had another go and it was great. It was a really good starting point. And she knew all of where she could make improvements and going forward. So, that was hugely rewarding, I get why you do it.
Helen Carter 10:04
Yeah, absolutely. And I think when people listen, and then take on board the advice, and they then get excited about their own results, and then they take that information and run with it and do their own thing from there. Oh, it's like, little children going off into the woods.
Bonny Snowdon 10:04
Honestly, just to see people develop, and to see people really start. It's not just developing their drawing skills, it's developing all sorts of other skills, its confidence, it's doing something they've either never done before, or they've done ages ago and it's just coming out with creativity, whatever they're doing. And as somebody who teaches, I did an hour and a half, I'll do some more. But every Thursday, I do critiques. So, I do 25 critiques every Thursday, and it is my favourite time of the week. It tires me out, because it's like three hours. But to see people's development and to see people and to not necessarily think, oh, I've helped them do that. Because obviously, we do help them when we give them some tips, ideas, and blah, blah, blah. But ultimately, it's them, they have to do it.
Bonny Snowdon 11:26
It's so good in it. I get really good at stuff. So, I tend to critique my piece I'll have in Photoshop, one on either side of the other. And there's usually I've just been critiquing somebody's work today. And it's penguins and a little fluffy chick, and there's the mother penguin. And then all my god, honestly, it's just like, I bet. This is just amazing. And I said you're all going to be going Bonny, "What is the matter with you? You're getting excited about a one-centimetre strip of floor what they were standing on." But they got the values are absolutely spot on. So, they were sitting on this little bit of snow. And then the values were so perfect between the snow and the background, that you would have that distance. And I was like, Oh my God.
Helen Carter 12:18
That is not easy to get, is it?
Bonny Snowdon 12:21
No, it's really not.
Helen Carter 12:23
Yeah. So, I thank you for the advice from nearly eight months ago now, I think which was, "Just try it for goodness’ sake."
Bonny Snowdon 12:35
You've got a very varied range of what you do. So, you do portraits, you do still life you do all sorts of different stuff.
Helen Carter 12:45
I do try. I'm a bit of a nightmare to categorize. As I do lots of different mediums as well. I really do like to experiment colour pencils, for sure where my love is, I love them, genuinely. But I dabble. I flirt with other mediums. But yes, I do try to mix it up a bit as much as I can. And not just do the pets, not just do the animals and the wildlife and not just do the floral. Also, though I'm very into florals right now. And the people portraits are probably the hardest one out of all of them. I do enjoy them very much probably my second favourite kind of subject to do on people. But it is definitely the hardest ones because the skin tone is so full of colour. And if you get it, if you just put your pages and your brand and your pinks in, it's never going to look right. And you really have to go home with those blues and those greens and those olives. And it's like, "Oh, my goodness, am I going too much? I don't know." So, I do try to mix it up a bit. And I think that's going to keep me interested because I can be a bit, I'm going to say fady. And I think that colour pencils are stuck with me because I just fell in love with them. So, that's something that I don't think it's ever going to go away. But with the other mediums I kind of drop in, drop out, drop in, drop out, drop in, drop out. And I get to a point where the learning of that new medium gets a bit tricky, gets a bit hard and I sort of plateau with my understanding and my knowledge, and I have to away and reflect on what I’ve learned and come back to it again when the urge sticks, that's the way I learn best.
Bonny Snowdon 12:46
Yes, it's funny. I was talking about this. Yesterday was I was talking to this amazing lady, she's an astrologer. And I was sort of saying that I have huge loyalty. That's a very big part of me. I'm a very loyal person. And I feel completely and utterly loyal to my colour pencils. So, I've tried oil the lovely Jean Pritchard has been has been helping me.
Helen Carter 14:58
I've seen a little of your oil work.
Bonny Snowdon 15:11
And it's great and it's nothing like jeans, but it's okay but I don't have passion, I really want to do it just feel really sort of tied. And like, I just really love my coloured pencils. And actually, I've kind of concentrated on animals for a long time, six years, basically, I've concentrated on animals because they're my absolute passion. But I started to do people and I started to pick up on some flowers and everything, and I'm like, oh, my goodness, people, I absolutely love drawing people. But I don't think I will ever be a commissioned artist for people because I really don't want to be sent photographs that are badly lit or, lightly. With an animal, I'm happy to do that. With a person, you have got to get it out.
Helen Carter 16:07
Can you with a person, it has to look like them.
Bonny Snowdon 16:10
Exactly, if you're drawing something from a photo you've got from Pixabay, or something like that, it does not really matter, because you don't know that person. But yeah, I'm really enjoying.
Helen Carter 16:24
Really, I've really enjoyed seeing your little dabble into, into moving into people and the florals are starting to come out as well.
Bonny Snowdon 16:32
Them too, both is a start, I've chosen yellow ones that have got hardly any colour or detail but then I've done them as a tutorial. And again, that's really nice, because I understand about value on and form and all of that kind of stuff. And the sunflowers I really enjoy doing.
Helen Carter 16:54
I think green is one of the hardest colours. Personally, I really struggle with getting the right green and into the depth of green and making it not look that horrible just out of the tin green. And I know about using the complementary to kind of take some of that unnaturalness out. But I always end up procrastinating over what colour green am I actually going to put down first in order to create that base or to create that internally illuminated kind of green. I find them really hard. That's why I find landscapes so tricky.
Bonny Snowdon 17:33
You see, I just go. It'll do. That's my whole philosophy in life.
Helen Carter 17:41
That's probably a good way to be perfectly fair, rather than worrying about everything like I do.
Bonny Snowdon 17:46
No, I'm not a worrier. I'm just not a worrier. I listened to a brilliant podcast last week. It's the diary of a CEO. And it's Steven Bartlett, and I had no idea that he's a dragon. And then all of a sudden-
Helen Carter 18:01
I generally listen to that also, the one I was listening to was the, make yourself heard or the speaking one.
Bonny Snowdon 18:09
What was his name? Julian Favour?
Helen Carter 18:12
That’s him. Yes.
Bonny Snowdon 18:13
What a lovely man.
Helen Carter 18:15
Yeah, that was incredibly interesting.
Bonny Snowdon 18:17
Yeah. And it made me want to go and do like a proper speaking course.
Helen Carter 18:24
Me too. I really wanted to go and get some public speaking kind of instruction or tuition or something. Because I always listen back to myself and say-
Bonny Snowdon 18:38
You need to have pauses in there. You don't want to have the ums and ums and ers and your knows and everything. And I listened to mine and I was oh my god. But he was such an eloquent,
Helen Carter 18:57
Absolutely
Bonny Snowdon 18:58
Really interesting guy, and he was the one that was talking about values. So, he was talking about the speech and the sound and like how important sound is. I think he was talking about the Intel logo.
Helen Carter 19:13
Oh, yes.
Bonny Snowdon 19:13
Because we all know the sound around the logo, but we couldn't really tell you what the logo looks like.
Helen Carter 19:20
It's square, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 19:21
I've no idea. But the how sound is so important. And then I think they were talking about that's why crisp packets are all crispy. And when you open them up, they've got the rustling because it's the psychology around what we're hoping to find inside, really interesting. But he was talking about his values and his values he'd done an acronym of flag and his first value was faith. And then he went on to say, actually, it's not about religion or anything like that. It's just the faith that everything will be okay. Everything will work out okay. And I was like, sitting there in the corner, like right, I'm changing my values. That's what my values are. Maybe that is, I really truly believe that everything will be okay.
Helen Carter 20:10
Yeah, because ordinarily, the universe just sorts itself out and allows things to happen, doesn't it? If it's meant to be it will be.
Bonny Snowdon 20:19
Yeah, absolutely. I have a very strong belief that what I'm doing with my business and everything that will work out. And it's not like a big headed doubt, or a big headedness or anything, there's no doubt that it will work out.
Helen Carter 20:38
It is faith, its faith that what you're doing is the right direction for you. And that's right. I had some kind of, I'd say, a loss of faith earlier in the year. For many reasons, I didn't really know which way I wanted to go with my artwork, because I'm not a big business and I'm not even really a very small business, I just do it because I love it. And I opted to move away from commissions. And so, I've ceased doing pet portraits for now, it's not a permanent thing. I've got through that kind of faith crisis. And now I'm going I miss doing a dog, I really want to do a cat, I really miss it. Because when you're working with customers that have come to you because they want you to draw their pet, be it be still with us or not. You do create a bond with them. I think, with the pet as well. I like to know about the animal that I'm drawing for somebody or the person even but particularly the animal I like to know about the animal that I'm drawing, finding out about that, because I live in an apartment, I can't have animals here. So, I really miss having pets. I really do. And that was one way of actually connecting with animals for me. So, I miss that. And I kind of want to start again, but I think I'll pick it up again next year. I use this time to continue learning.
Bonny Snowdon 22:18
What do you think was the reason why you dropped the pet portraits? Was there a specific to reason or?
Helen Carter 22:26
I've been doing it for what, four years, and my skills have gotten pretty good. I could render most things very well with coloured pencils. I knew what I was doing. And I felt that there was a lack of challenge. And I was in need of some additional stimulus, I think, really, I needed to feel like I was still learning. So, I'm not one of these people that always has to be doing something new. But I do like to set myself challenges, which is I think one of the reasons that I'm a little bit fady and I always like to be trying something new, having just said that I don't like to keep trying something new. But I do like to keep pushing a little against the envelope. So, I think that was still some of it. I just wanted to experiment a little bit with some different ideas and some different styles? So, I think that was the reason but having now kind of sort of totalled about a little bit there. Which has been great fun. I think every now and then I need to just sort of sprinkle in a little of what I'm really good at. Otherwise, it's just sort of mediocre and bad all the time. And personally, I need to make some good art in about it. So, I think it's about getting the balance right. So, that I've got that challenge and impetus to grow in other directions but also can come back to what I'm good at and feel accomplished doing it.
Bonny Snowdon 24:04
I do get that my pet portraits business, which is what I first started off with is probably about 10% of what I do now. I'm booked up until the end of 2023 which is man butter madness. Sorry, the dogs going around.
Helen Carter 24:31
The baby in the background sniffling around?
Bonny Snowdon 24:34
Round around. Honestly, that dog has cost me 600 pounds this week. So, he came in on Monday and he was making these weird gulping was like gulping and then snapping at the air and then licking the carpet. Which is really weird and I was like what's going on. And then he threw up massively. I’m like, oh my god. So, I've got my youngest son who's 18 going, I was on a call. He kept on ringing me and I'm like, I'm on a call and he's like Vinnie is being sick. I don't know what's happening. So, I had to cut the call shot. Raced into the vets, and he stayed in the vets all day. And haven't got anything caught. And he was drinking and everything. Stayed in the vets all day, we get a call, it's all like eight o'clock at night, you can come and get him. Five o'clock, they were just putting him under to scope him and everything. And they couldn't find anything other than a slightly sore throat. And then when they did a bit of Googling, on the symptoms, it came up as acid reflux. It's not something that happens all of the time. But it could have been something that he'd swallowed that then it caused him to have this acid and that apparently those symptoms are very, so he'd gone under general anaesthetic had this scope, which cost me. It doesn't really matter, and it is all insured and everything, and I do anything for my animals. It's not an issue at all. But that was about 500 grand, and then I've had to have my car validated because he was sick all over the backseat. I cleaned it out. But then when I got in it the day after I was like, the smell is not good.
Helen Carter 26:32
I can still smell it.
Bonny Snowdon 26:35
Because it had gone all into like the seatbelt bits. Anyway, so I've had to have my car.
Helen Carter 26:42
Yeah, I can’t be dealing with bad smell
Bonny Snowdon 26:46
No. Anyway, so yes.
Helen Carter 26:50
It's pretty settled down now.
Bonny Snowdon 26:56
Yeah. My pet portraits, my thinking is that when I really get people to rebook them, I probably open my books middle of next year, I think. My plan is to only take on six during the year.
Helen Carter 27:12
Yeah. I think you've got many other things to be focused on these days.
Bonny Snowdon 27:19
Yeah, I'm like, I don't know.
Helen Carter 27:21
The Duracell Bonny. I think I called you that once before.
Bonny Snowdon 27:25
Yeah.
Helen Carter 27:25
And you said, "No, I'm really lazy."
Bonny Snowdon 27:29
I am. So, I have Lucy who's worked for me for two years now. She started off as working two days a week to help me with marketing everything. She now works Monday to Thursday. And she's absolutely brilliant. And then I've been working with a consultant from France, who's been amazing. And she's helped me build this membership. I've also invested in my development quite a lot. So, I bought into training courses and stuff like that, that again, it's been really, really good.
Helen Carter 28:04
I think I read in in your pre previous week, scribble, or watched a video from there you said that with regards, I think, no Lucy but the consultant and she was like teaching you about marketing. And that you didn't know that how outdated your marketing knowledge was, because there's so much to it these days that it was as if you didn't know anything at school.
Bonny Snowdon 28:32
I know, my marketing is pretty good. I've done a marketing diploma. I've worked in marketing before. And I kind of know how traditional marketing works. But to run a membership-
Helen Carter 28:46
Yeah, very different.
Bonny Snowdon 28:49
And to run a membership that's closed is a very different kettle of fish. It's all-around funnels and pipelines, and I'm just sitting. I've been asked to write a chapter for a book that's coming out. So, I'm part of a networking group. And one of the people that is in the networking group is an author and publisher. And she's putting together this book with chapters from different people. I've just written my chapter yesterday. And it's really, really interesting. It's around collaboration. And actually, I had to completely have total faith in what Lucy the consultant was saying to me, because it was complete. I was like, this goes completely against everything I know. Do I go for it? Or do I just go. Do you know what? "No, I can't I can't do this." I'm really scared to have a membership that's closed the majority of the time and it's only open for two weeks. So, how is that going to work, but it works really well. What it means for me is that I end up getting loyal members who want to work with me, who really want to develop and have got that commitment.
Helen Carter 30:15
Yeah, I suppose it gives you an opportunity to get to know those members more closely than if it was open all the time and people were coming and going.
Bonny Snowdon 30:24
Exactly. People do come and go. And I think that's one of the reasons why I wanted to sort of quieten down the patron side of stuff, because there's that real culture of jumping in, jumping out, jumping in, jumping out, there's no commitment, there's no loyalty. And if you don't have commitment with somebody, how are you going to learn? And I want to teach people who really want to learn.
Helen Carter 30:48
it's pretty exhausting for the artists too, isn't it? Patreon? I've seen quite a few kinds of YouTube videos recently, actually, about how hard it is to run a successful Patreon, especially when you're putting out art tutorials like you and I would. Those high detail ones, because it's a lot of effort, isn't it?
Bonny Snowdon 31:12
It is a lot of effort. And it's a lot of efforts, whether you've got one patron, or whether you've got 1000.
Helen Carter 31:21
Yeah, exactly.
Bonny Snowdon 31:22
There was a point in time where I got up and just short of 2000, which was amazing. I think I've got that six or 700 in there now. It's really hard work. And if you get the returns, it's great, because you can then use that to either get somebody to help you, or get better equipment or anything. But if you've only got 10 people in there, or even like 20 or 30 people, you're not getting a huge amount for what you're doing. And I think a lot of the time, there's almost like this thought that I just love drawing, I just love my art, and it's not about the money. And you know what, that's absolutely fine. But then if you're not paid for what you do, you can't do more of it, you can't get better equipment, you can't make a living from it, you can't have a blessed life. Money for me is a tool. And it's something that I've had to get to grips with, because I've never had a very good relationship with money. I've either have it or I haven't already.
Helen Carter 32:28
Like burned a hole in your pocket.
Bonny Snowdon 32:30
Exactly. But what is meant for me is, I've been able to build my business. And I've been able to actually give an offer because I give to charity an offer, something that I don't do. And I'm not sure whether I want to or not, I don't advertise the fact that I give to charity, and I give quite a lot to charity every month. The charity it's not an animal one or anything like that. It's about domestic abuse, and I'm really passionate about that, and maybe I probably should sing about it a bit more. And I employ people, so I give back to the community and I put stuff into my business and I pay big tax bills, which I'm really not happy about.
Helen Carter 33:16
You need a better financial consultant, maybe?
Bonny Snowdon 33:20
Well, to be fair, I've got a really great financial lady who I've just changed to and she's absolutely brilliant. But you've got to pay some tax. And then I've got to pay VAT as well. When I first started the academy, I'm like, lalala and then all of a sudden, I'm like, oh, no, I got to pay for that.
Helen Carter 33:46
I need to get fat registered. All that kind of thing. Yeah, I know. There's a lot of learning involved in running a business whether it's small or large isn't there. Especially around the finances, it's quite a challenge when you're just coming into it without knowing anything about it. Like you and I are coming in from a from a paid work in regular job to having to learn about how to do self-assessments online and all that kind of thing.
Bonny Snowdon 34:16
Do you do your art full time now then?
Helen Carter 34:18
No, I don't. I don't work. As in I don't have a job but my husband needs some looking after and some care. And I do draw and paint and think about art a lot actually probably three quarters of my time. But in terms of paid work or sort of work that is going to be rewarded with financial sort of money, then no is only about 30% of my time I would say possibly even less than that. But I'm one of those that I do it because I really want to do it. And I really love doing it. And I'm supposed to be in the Philippines, I'm supposed to be living the life of luxury. That's why I quit work in 2017 in the first place. You know the story of my husband ended up with cancer. So, everything needed to change. And I did not need to go back to work full time, but I wanted to do something. And that's when art came back into my life. It was just something that I needed to explore again, after many, many years of not doing anything at all.
Bonny Snowdon 35:37
But you're going to the Philippines, aren't you?
Helen Carter 35:39
I am. I can't wait. Well, we're not going to move there, like we had planned to be, but I will be going in at the end of November. And I'll be there until the end of February. So, I just let that sink in.
Bonny Snowdon 35:58
But you know, life takes you on some very different sort of curves, doesn't it?
Helen Carter 36:05
It really does.
Bonny Snowdon 36:06
And it's very easy for me to say to you, "Oh, gosh, how wonderful for you, that you don't have to work." But that actually, your husband is ill, and you’re looking after him. There's nothing really romantic about that. Is there? No, not at all.
Helen Carter 36:26
It's a challenge all of its own. And I think I'm not a registered carer or anything like that. But I do, I take good care of him. His family, mostly live in the Philippines now. His dad's English, and he's been out in Hong Kong for his entire working life pretty much. So, we haven't seen his family for five years, thanks to chemotherapy and treatments and the pandemic. Thanks very much for that, too. So, it's really important that we go out as regularly as we can to see them.
Bonny Snowdon 37:04
Oh, gosh, that's going to be amazing when you go. It’s going to be absolutely brilliant. Particularly if you've got people who are already out there that can almost sort of share a little bit of the load as well of the looking after him and stuff.
Helen Carter 37:17
That's exactly it. It does mean that it's a bit of a holiday for me in terms of his needs, and what he needs to get through the day and such, but he's no trouble, really. I just have a lot of running around and getting in things and organizing his appointments and such. But when we're out there, we're down tools on treatment, so he can just sit back and just feel okay for a little while, which is massively important when you're not well.
Bonny Snowdon 37:58
Oh, brilliant. That'd be so nice of you. And will you take your art with you, or will that just take a bit of a backseat.
Helen Carter 38:04
I just ordered a suitcase. I didn't have one big enough for all my art stuff. I just don't know what to take. So, I'm taking pretty much all of it.
Bonny Snowdon 38:14
Everything.
Helen Carter 38:15
Why not? I don't need anything but a pair of shorts, a pair of flip flops. I don't even think I need the flip flops. Because though I left some out there. Last time we were there. I just have a pair of shorts and T shirts.
Bonny Snowdon 38:30
And all of your art stuff in a massive suitcase.
Helen Carter 38:32
And all of my art stuff. So, yeah, yeah, getting it through customs might be a bit tricky.
Bonny Snowdon 38:38
Well, just make sure you don't have any of that titanium white powder or anything like that. Don’t take that.
Helen Carter 38:45
I'm just looking at it right now. Definitely won’t take that. So, I'm confident that we're going to have a lovely time. It's hurricane season out there. So, with a bit of luck, we won't get blown off the island.
Bonny Snowdon 39:01
Oh, it'd be so nice. Brilliant. So, I know that you've done some teaching for UK CPS in there. Did you do one in London when they have the-
Bonny Snowdon 39:13
Not when you're doing smooth subjects.
Helen Carter 39:13
I did. That was my first ever. I did two very short workshops. Actually, no, one was a four hour one which was working on black paper. Which was really good fun. There’re a few people that I'd say I've met online that came and joined and that was brilliant, fun and really rewarding for me having done that for the first time. And I did another one as well, which the life of me can't remember what that was now. No, I do not remember. So, that was the first one that was October last year. That was my first ever in person. And then I went to Surrey and I did floras on drafting film. And that was somebody asked me to come and teach a group of people. So, I taught there. And that was a really great professional setup. And that was about four hours, five hours teaching. And again, we didn't get very much done. I think I was still finding my feet. Because when you're teaching, you have to talk a lot, and I wasn't quite able to keep the pace up. Yeah, but the results were fabulous. I really dropped in film; it is not an easy medium to work on.
Helen Carter 40:32
Yeah. Well, we were doing florals. So, it was a smooth subject, which might not have been the best choice. But they looked beautiful. I was really, really happy. And then after doing that, because it went really well. And I got quite a buzz from it. I decided that yeah, now's the time, I'd take Bonny up on that kind of comment and do it, just do it.
Bonny Snowdon 40:55
Do you think you'll do some more then?
Helen Carter 40:58
I'm doing a workshop in 1st November; I'm doing a little free one online. So, if any of your listeners want to join in and with that, it's up and it's free. And you can just book tickets on my website isn't limited numbers, though. So, get in quick.
Bonny Snowdon 41:16
You’re doing it on online.
Helen Carter 41:18
It’s going to be a Zoom workshop. And it's just going to be really relaxed. It's free, because I want to keep it relaxed. So, that’s no pressure on me to kind of make it too much. It is very silly. We're going to be drawing and painting or colouring dunks you know these Guna. We're going to be using Derwent Ink tense, which you can either use the pencils or the blocks or the paints, they've got one of my favourite supplies for Derwent. And I thought, yeah, let's do that. Because they're really good fun. I did these dunk Christmas cards last year, and they went down a storm. And I thought, let's just do it. Let's just do it for fun. When I was at patching’s, this year, Patching’s Art Festival, with Derwent’s and really enjoyed that whole kind of four days. A lot of people were interested in understanding how the Ink tense Pencils worked. Lots of people coming up to me and saying I don't get it. What's the difference between those and watercolour and such? And so, it was really good to be able to talk to those people. But it made me understand that actually, the Ink tense range being a thing all of its own could do with some more luck out there and I love them. So, I'll spread them.
Bonny Snowdon 42:37
Because you're a Derwent ambassador.
Helen Carter 42:41
Yes, I am. Yeah, it's really good. Really rewarding for both of us, I think. And I do all kinds of things with them. Really all kinds of different things because they do paints and these ink tents and pans and graphite, and of course the coloured pencils. I do get to try a lot of different mediums and different processes as well, which fits in with my jumping about.
Bonny Snowdon 43:13
Well, yeah, it does, doesn't it? Because you're not just stuck with one medium. But a whole range of different things that you can use.
Helen Carter 43:21
Exactly. They don't tend to pick me for anything colour pencil related. Apart from online, I've done a few online one-hour workshops with them and coloured pens. I did one with and I'm going to be doing one with John Lewis as well. But those are kind of salesy, rather than real shoe wish on side of things. So, I'm talking about the product whilst I'm working on something, and I can do that that's fine. But ordinarily, I don't tend to get picked for a lot of coloured pencil work. They tend to ask me to do other things. Which I don't mind. I like it. It's good.
Bonny Snowdon 44:05
Oh, amazing. There is a couple of pencils that I really like from Derwent. I bought all of the lightfast range. I do use them occasionally. But I don't know they don't tend to work with how I like to use my pencils. I find that the Derwent pencils work really well on their own.
Helen Carter 44:29
Yeah, I think they play well with slightly softer pencils. The polychromes underneath lightfast is a great match. I like that a lot.
Bonny Snowdon 44:43
I don't like them.
Helen Carter 44:44
Do you know?
Bonny Snowdon 44:45
No.
Helen Carter 44:45
That's because you find them sticky.
Bonny Snowdon 44:47
No. I just find they have a bit of a resist on them because I'm very much about feel. Again, that feeling it's almost like a bit of a vibration that comes off them. I don't not like them. And I have the full range and I think they're beautiful. But I choose not to use them.
Helen Carter 45:08
I would recommend not using them on pasture mat. So, I would say I wouldn't recommend using them on pastelmat and I think there are other pencils that are better for pastelmat. They just are beautiful on hot press watercolour paper. Not arches because that's too woefully in texture. The Hannah moolah harmony.
Bonny Snowdon 45:32
I love that. [Inaudible] as well, from Hannah moolah.
Helen Carter 45:38
Yeah. And I've also got-
Bonny Snowdon 45:39
And the life last paper.
Helen Carter 45:42
Well, of course, the life fast paper.
Bonny Snowdon 45:44
I really like the lightfast paper.
Helen Carter 45:46
I'd like it to be a little whiter than it is to cream for me. I have to pick and choose what subjects I'm going to do on the lightfast paper. I'd really like a little brighter kind of finish to that. But the texture is beautiful. And being 100%, I think it's 100% cotton. It's really, really sort of luxurious feeling. The other Hannah moolah one is the watercolour paper, which is the cotton rag. Oh, my goodness, that is a match made in heaven. It really is.
Bonny Snowdon 46:23
Ive done a few tutorials on the lightfast. And I've done a few tutorials on horrible Fabriano.
Helen Carter 46:35
I don't like Fabriano either.
Bonny Snowdon 46:37
It's quite weird. It’s like drawing on a tea towel.
Helen Carter 46:40
Agreed? I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's got that horrible kind of waffle. No matter which side you use it's got this weird texture that I can't for the life of me get rid of even with a bit of burnishing.
Bonny Snowdon 46:55
Yeah. And it's that way that you have to give it and then be like pain in my shoulder and then I have to have physio.
Helen Carter 47:00
The cotton rag from Hannah moolah that was actually very nice. Let me just get you little picture. The block that I'm using.
Bonny Snowdon 47:15
Ah, right. Okay. Oh, I'll have a look at that. So, they're not crazily expensive either. Are they the Hannah mullah?
Helen Carter 47:21
No. I can't remember how much this was but I bought it at patching’s but I've done about three things on this particular paper now. Hannah moolah watercolour mould made watercolour 300 GSM, 140 pounds, 100% pure cotton rag.
Bonny Snowdon 47:41
And it's relatively smooth. It's like a hot press.
Helen Carter 47:45
It is a hot press. And I think it's lovely. Really lovely. Because they don't have that horrible waffle texture.
Bonny Snowdon 47:55
I talked about not liking hot press. And yet actually, some of my really great tutorials have been done on hot press papers. I love pastelmat. And I think I love pastelmat because it's so forgiving. You make the mistake and you just go well, I look over it a bit. I really do like pastelmat. And it is my favourite. And I love I love drafting film. It's just easy to get your pencil down on there. Particularly for things because you've got texture, I know you've done quite a lot of stuff with smooth textures and everything.
Helen Carter 48:31
I've not done an animal on film yet. I don't know why, I've just gone down the floral route, the smooth stuff on it. I must have picked up the hardest thing to do on film. Is a massive challenge to get a really flat colour. I love it. I really love it.
Bonny Snowdon 48:56
I guess with me doing tutorials, what I tend to do is I'll pick a surface that's going to make me feel confident in what I'm doing. And I do have people saying oh, can we do this on blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I'm not sure it's going to make a great tutorial because to be honest, I do record stuff going wrong. I've got the most hilarious tutorial on a black and white cat done on Fabriano on the really thick stuff. And it went horribly wrong. Like, ridiculously wrong. And the surface of the paper was coming up. I’m like what's going on here. I tried indenting and then the indenting hadn't worked properly. And I was trying painting and honestly the whole thing so it ended up being this total farce. And I put it up as a tutorial and I just said look, I'm going to show you this because-
Helen Carter 49:53
Here's what not to do.
Bonny Snowdon 49:54
If something goes really wrong. It didn’t matter does it?
Helen Carter 50:03
Not really.
Bonny Snowdon 50:04
That's one of the things that I struggle with, the teaching. And teaching so many people. I'm teaching back two and a half thousand people as part of my two memberships. And one thing that people really struggle with is that just getting so not uptight, because that sounds like it's rude. But just getting so sad and upset about when something goes wrong. And I'm trying to teach people that, it doesn't matter. And actually, when you think you've gone wrong, and where you think you've done something really rubbish. When I look at it, I see something completely different. I see something really great. And it makes me really sad that people pick up on the bad stuff, rather than the good stuff.
Helen Carter 50:52
To be fair, most of that's kind of human nature, I think. You need one negative comment, and it can flip you on the wrong side for the whole week even, can't it. But I like to think of mistakes as well, I've just haven't finished yet. That's all it is, I can probably go over it or work around it. And if at the end of it is still got that little mistake in then I'll have to live with that and learn from it. And just use that as a learning point for the future. I did some work with them some intense recently, for Derwent because you can lay out, because it goes down like ink once it's wet and then dried, you can actually go over it. And the layer below doesn't move, it stays. It's permanent. So, I was going over it and I completely forgot all about the colour wheel. And what happens when you add all these colours on top. And then I ended up with this nasty muddy mess in one corner. Luckily, I was working in small sections rather than across the whole thing, because I can't work that way. I just do-little sections. So, I just had this little muddy corner, which I just had to go. I just darken that all the way down and just pretend it seemed like a real reset. You don't notice it when you look at the whole picture. You can see it definitely when you look at just that bit. But don't just look at that bit. Look at what else you've done.
Bonny Snowdon 52:28
Yeah. And that's it, isn't it? It's about dealing with and making decisions about something goes wrong, do I have a bit of a hissy fit? Or do I actually go well, actually, in the whole scheme of things, I can actually make this look a bit better. And what happened? I guess, as you become more well known, and you get more followers and all of that kind of stuff. Do you tend to get- because I've seen some pretty nasty stuff recently on social media where people have been almost like them following other people around and going, Oh, well, I had a comment on something, Bonny has copied that rose. I did like a little quick rose tutorial thing. You should be saying thank you to this person who actually was the person who originally drew this picture on. I was like, well, it's a Pixabay photo.
Helen Carter 53:21
It’s got to be 100 people that have already drawn that.
Bonny Snowdon 53:23
[Inaudible] poor person, theirs was a red one. Mine was yellow. I don't know whether people just do it on purpose, or whether they're just that kind of person where they just really love to antagonize. But there was this other poor girl, and she was literally following around the internet. I don't tend to get involved with stuff like that. But I did comment and I just say, "Look, the best thing to deal with people like this is to block them and to completely ignore, totally ignore what they say because what they want you to do is get fuelled by it and they want you to flame war." And it really is. I don't know, people just feel that they can just say anything that come to cut my own knee.
Helen Carter 54:13
Because it's anonymous for the most part, you don't really know who's behind the name or the picture. There's that artificial fence between what they type and where it goes and who's at the other end. It's quite easy to forget that there's an actual human on the other end of that that kind of a bit snarky comment or whatever. I'm quite lucky I think I haven't really had too many instances of that. I have had my share, but not as much as you would get because your stuff's going out and getting seen by lots more people than mine is. Instagram or don't even get me started on the algorithm. But you just have to switch off and go well, it is what it is. They will either fix it or they won't.
Bonny Snowdon 55:05
It's been going up and up and up. Great. And then all of a sudden, it was just stuck on one number. I'm like, this is really weird, just stuck on a number, stuck on a number. And then all of a sudden it jumped. And it was just like 200 more. And I was like, yeah, there's something.
Helen Carter 55:19
Something's going wrong. Yeah, I noticed I was happily googling along, getting a few increases on a daily basis. And then all of a sudden, it's like looking at the insights, and my picture which wasn't a reel, my picture had been seen by 12 people in six hours. What am I doing wrong?
Bonny Snowdon 55:44
I know, but it's nothing that we're doing wrong. And this is the whole problem isn't it. I was listening to another podcast yesterday, James Wedmore. brilliant businessman. Absolutely brilliant. And what he was saying was, and this is what we forget I think when it comes to social media. We think, oh, we need loads of followers, followers mean I've made it.
Helen Carter 56:09
Engagement
Bonny Snowdon 56:10
Even engagement on social media you know, if you're building a business, what you need is you need people buying your product. The engagement is great and obviously, you want to build your platform and everything like that, but actually, what we should be concentrating on, if you're building a business what you should be concentrating on is sales and getting people to buy stuff. And not get fixated with the numbers on Instagram and Facebook, because they don't really mean anything. Your strategy could be that you want to build a really big following and there's nothing wrong with that. But it was very interesting.
Helen Carter 56:52
When I first really got into Instagram, I think I started in late 2018 I was very fixated. And Instagram even then it was a quite a different sort of place. These days I quite like my Facebook page, to be honest. That's a nice, pleasant place to be. There's 1000 or so people there who follow and like and comment, and we can chat and answer questions and it's a nice place to be. Whereas Instagram is very quiet and it's also a very immediate, so it's like fast food really, you know?
Bonny Snowdon 57:37
Yeah, definitely. I've been trying to get into Tik Tok, which is really hard. I don't want to, I don't want to mime. You know what I love Tik Tok and I will sit and I will lose like two hours on just flicking through.
Helen Carter 57:56
I don't want to emulate anything that I see.
Bonny Snowdon 57:59
No, but I've seen others doing miming and, and it just makes me cringe. And I just can't bring myself to do any of it. You know?
Helen Carter 58:13
Not only I just that little bit too far.
Bonny Snowdon 58:19
Or I try to do and I couldn't find it. I tried to do a corn. A corn TikTok yesterday on pencils. Luckily, I couldn't find the pencils. So, I didn't which is fine. I love Tik Tok. I absolutely love it. There are people I follow and they're absolutely brilliant. I don't really follow artists on TikTok.
Helen Carter 58:51
The device is incredibly random.
Bonny Snowdon 58:55
I like watching Irish dancers and children coming down slides and banging their heads on.
Helen Carter 59:03
I watch a lot of dog videos.
Bonny Snowdon 59:05
Oh, dogs. Yeah, dogs. Oh, gosh. And I follow one I can't remember what her name was, Elizabeth, the pig, and just the Tik Toks of her just running up to you.
Helen Carter 59:19
Do you ever catch yourself like, two hours in? And look and go what have I been doing? I’ve just be stuck here scrolling. My eyes are killing me. But that's the platform. That's why it's so successful. It is built to keep you up. You have to you have to click like three times to actually get out. So, it's genius really.
Bonny Snowdon 59:47
I don't know. We're over an hour
Helen Carter 59:51
I don't know how that happened.
Bonny Snowdon 59:53
I know it's like we've just been chatting for five minutes. I've been really, really nice to talk to you.
Helen Carter 59:59
Its been a catch up really rather than anything specific.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:02
Yeah. Well chatting is I think we both chat quite well, don't we?
Helen Carter 1:00:07
Yeah, I think so.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:10
I followed you on some of your life draws on Instagram when you've done a live for Instagram.
Helen Carter 1:00:15
I know, you scared the pants off of me when he came on that first time.
Helen Carter 1:00:19
I was like I got to see what Hellen is doing? And you were just like, "Oh my God. What are you doing here?" I was like, oh, okay.
Helen Carter 1:00:41
You are scaring me go away. I think that was probably my first or second ever to been live. And I was really nervous. But now I don't mind it at all.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:54
I really enjoy seeing how other people draw. I find very relaxing.
Helen Carter 1:00:59
I can sit there for hours just watching people draw and find out by Son. And she goes on quite regularly with some of her friends. And they do like a live draw party. And they're all talking in a foreign language. And I've got no idea what they're saying. But I don't care. I'm just really enjoying watching Sandra, because she's just lovely to watch. So, I don't know. So, sorry about shouting at you.
Bonny Snowdon 1:01:29
I haven't been back on. Im coming on under a different name. Not that I've got a different name. But it's been so nice to talk to you.
Helen Carter 1:01:47
Yeah, it's been a lovely hour. I'm going to go off and do some Intoner silly illustrations now, because is that month again, when we would turn ourselves into robots and draw a painting a day or a picture a day?
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:05
Oh, gosh, yeah. No, I don't tend to do those sorts of things. I don't like structure.
Helen Carter 1:02:12
Do you know not?
Bonny Snowdon 1:02:12
No, not at all. And I really fight against it. I've had to be far more structured, running a business. I really do fight against it. I like to be able to just, if I want to draw.
Helen Carter 1:02:26
I've always really enjoyed art prompts, I think because it takes away some of the kind of the thought process from the site where say today, you've got to draw a cow. You don't have to actually draw a cow. The word is cow, but you can draw anything that the cow inspires. So, my last that was number three I think in cow. It was cow boy actually. I just drew this ridiculous small child in a cow onesie. I don't really know why I did that. But I did. That’s what came out. And it's just a way to sit down one hour, I give myself one hour to do it. And that's from inception to completion. So, I've just worked fast, make bad art, and just enjoy watching all of the other people doing drawings and using the same prompt.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:20
Fast drawing is great, though.
Helen Carter 1:03:23
It's quite therapeutic actually. It does enable you to kind of to some way get through that. Oh, it's got to be perfect. Mentality.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:30
Yeah. Get over yourself. I don’t think my life is perfect ever. And I like it that way.
Helen Carter 1:03:36
I do an awful lot in my sketchbook too. I do really enjoy just I'd say doodling but it's sketching either whether it's out and when I'm out and about or in cafes and stuff. Nobody's ever going to see those because they're terrible. But it's just good fun.
Bonny Snowdon 1:03:54
Your hands are moving your brain is less busy.
Helen Carter 1:04:00
Absolutely. I need something to take my brain off of other things. And I like to sit. I do enjoy sitting in a cafe and drawing and doodling people as they come in and walk past. They never sit still long enough, though.
Bonny Snowdon 1:04:14
No, I never know how they do. That guy on the train where he draws like this really realistic drawing. How long are they on that train for?
Helen Carter 1:04:21
I don't know, I reckon he just pays everyone to sit in the carriage for three extra stops or something.
Bonny Snowdon 1:04:25
I think he must do. Some thinking would be there all week. We'd have to go on the Orient Express. I think for me to be able.
Helen Carter 1:04:33
I know. By the way are you planning to do any more away workshops, as in not workshops, but like full day events and stuff where you go away to a hotel and stuff?
Bonny Snowdon 1:04:44
Yes, I am. We were going to do one in November, but I've just decided it's just going to be too much. I don't want the pressure really,
Helen Carter 1:04:54
Too much else going on?
Bonny Snowdon 1:04:55
Well, yeah. And then we were going to do something in France. And we might still do that. And really lovely sort of chattery type place looks really nice. But yeah, we're looking for something next year, that's going to be almost like a retreat type thing. Where we go away for maybe a week, maybe not as long as that. And what I want to do is I want to bring in some, because with me, it's not just about the drawing, it's about the confidence. it's about the mindset and everything like that. And I quite like to bring a couple of experts in that would do. I don't think one to one coaching, because I think we'd have enough time, but do sessions.
Helen Carter 1:05:37
And group workshops. I find that really interesting.
Bonny Snowdon 1:05:41
Yeah. So, we still have all of our drawing, and everybody can draw and be all lovely. But then we also have this really other interesting stuff. The one that I just did we did like a button workshop. Well, I thought it was going to be easier for everybody. Because you don’t have to talk about yourself. It's like, oh, well, I'm Bonny. And I'm from Britain and that's kind of it and I got the note to choose a button. To choose a button that represented them, and then to describe the button. And it was highly emotional. Because actually, what that ends up doing is you end up talking about actually who you are, intrinsically as a person. So, it's not just "Hi, I'm Bonny, I'm from Britain, and I'm a single mum" I actually had to talk about why this button represented me. And that's why it ends up being. But you get to know people so much more by kind of just digging under the skin a little bit.
Helen Carter 1:06:35
We don't dig and look at ourselves very often, do we?
Bonny Snowdon 1:06:39
No. That's what I bring in all of my teaching, I bring that. I talk to people about why they're feeling like this. They get to a lovely stage. Why are they feeling bad about it? You know what to expect. And I do all of my confidence sessions as well, which are just fabulous. Im trying to help people just to get over themselves a little bit because I've had to get over myself quite a lot. And it leads for a much nicer life.
Helen Carter 1:07:13
That does.
Bonny Snowdon 1:07:16
Well, it seems like a good place to stop, doesn't it? Oh, my gosh. Oh, it's been so nice talking to you. We must get together again soon.
Helen Carter 1:07:28
Yeah, that would be lovely.
Bonny Snowdon 1:07:29
I would like to meet maybe have a catch-up next year when you're back from the Philippines and everything would be really nice. I grow my hair again, then your mom won't be able to tell us apart.
Helen Carter 1:07:39
Well, I was thinking about the mine cut, actually. Because you know, that nothing is not a copy. I got way less hair, but that's too much of it now.
Bonny Snowdon 1:07:50
Oh, gosh. Well, we'll see. Dye it well, sort of like a brownie ready colour. But no, it'd be so nice to catch up and actually meet you.
Helen Carter 1:08:00
It would, I think that would be would be fabulous. I'm not sure if we should do it in person, because that could get messy.
Bonny Snowdon 1:08:09
Well, the tears and hugging and all that sort of stuff. Well, it's been an absolute joy Helen, thank you so much.
Helen Carter 1:08:18
It has for me too.
Bonny Snowdon 1:08:19
Thank you so much for joining me and we'll catch up very soon.
Helen Carter 1:08:24
Yeah, thank you so much indeed. Have a lovely rest of your week, rest of the day and speak to you soon.
Bonny Snowdon 1:08:30
You too. All right. Bye.
Helen Carter 1:08:32
Bye.
Bonny Snowdon 1:08:32
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time.
