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Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking. My guest this week is the fabulous wildlife artists that we featured. Her work is extraordinary. It really is absolutely beautiful. We had such a lovely chat talking about our daily routines, to our children, to mindset and coaching. It's a really, really interesting session. I think you're going to really enjoy it. So, welcome to Zoe. Oh, it's so nice to finally get to speak to you.
Zoe Fitchett 01:49
You too. I followed you for ages. I feel like I've already spoken to you to be honest.
Bonny Snowdon 01:55
I don't think we have. I think we've chatted in Instagram and everything. I don't know how long I have followed you for. I'm just really, really, really chuffed that we get to chat to each other. It's really nice.
Zoe Fitchett 02:09
Yeah, it's so nice connecting everyone up through Instagram and stuff. I've listened to a few of your podcast episodes. I think it was Alex's that brought me to it.
Bonny Snowdon 02:21
Yeah, probably Alex. He's the humblest person I think I've ever met in my whole life. It amazes me that he isn't oozing with confidence and he's just fantastic. He's so unique. He's really nice. We're going to crack on because I know you've got little ones having naps.
Zoe Fitchett 02:54
Yeah, she does usually go for about three hours. So, all goes well, we've got plenty of time.
Bonny Snowdon 03:03
How old is she?
Zoe Fitchett 03:05
She's just turned 16 months now. She is up on her feet, and everywhere.
Bonny Snowdon 03:12
Oh gosh, my youngest has just turned 18.
Zoe Fitchett 03:16
Oh, wow.
Bonny Snowdon 03:18
It’s really scary.
Zoe Fitchett 03:20
It's a completely different end of the spectrum. You're worrying about them for all kinds of different reasons.
Bonny Snowdon 03:24
I know. We just had A level results today.
Zoe Fitchett 03:29
How did it go?
Bonny Snowdon 03:30
Yeah, we've passed all three, which is great. It's spectacular, actually, because he didn't do one iota of work. He’s like his mother. But it wasn't something that we were worried about, because he's not going to university or anything like that. He's working at a cafe. He's the manager in a cafe. So, he's working in a cafe and he wants to take the whole of November off so to watch the whole of the World Cup. So, he's going to think about a proper job next year and an apprenticeship and everything next year so funny, but at least he's got three A levels which is fantastic.
Zoe Fitchett 04:18
Yeah, that's good. That's going to be a long way off for me yet.
Bonny Snowdon 04:22
Oh, do you know? It does. But I can remember when mine were little like it was yesterday. It's crazy how fast time goes, particularly with children. How many have you got? Two?
Zoe Fitchett 04:38
I've got two. My oldest is seven. Yeah, it's crazy how quick it all flies by.
Bonny Snowdon 04:47
Does your seven-year-old help with the baby then?
Zoe Fitchett 04:49
Yeah, he's brilliant. He’s very good.
Bonny Snowdon 04:55
Yeah, and I guess when you've got little ones as well, and you're a full-time artist, then it's always going to be a bit tricky to find the time. I guess, you can't really schedule stuff, can you? If you got to just fit it anywhere?
Zoe Fitchett 05:09
Yeah, I actually just posted a reel this morning. Yesterday, I took little clips of the whole day and just tried to capture the mayhem. But also, those little moments where I do actually get a chance to draw because it is literally like I wake up, there's chores to do around the house, and then you get a tiny little window about 20 minutes to draw. So, I grab it. Then it's breakfast time and you get on with the day. It's just those tiny little moments of the day that other people might think that's not enough time to get anything done. But if you just grab all those tiny moments, and then squish them all together, actually, I've probably worked for about five hours in the day. So, it's doable. It does mean that you're constantly like juggling the hats. One minute I'm in mom mode, and then it's quickly back to art and drawing and concentrating, and then it's back to mom, and then it's let the dog out. It is a constant juggle. But it's doable. I used to work in a very busy, multitasking environment. So, I think I've just learned from that.
Bonny Snowdon 06:20
What is it that you used to do?
Zoe Fitchett 06:23
I used to work in interior design for a company that show homes together for the new developments around the UK. So, that was just job after job after job. Everything had a million things to do and it all needed to be done right now. So, it was lots of deadlines, lots of pressure. But it taught me a lot of things time management wise.
Bonny Snowdon 06:50
Actually, now even though it seems like you're incredibly busy, it's probably a little bit more relaxed.
Zoe Fitchett 06:54
Yeah, exactly. Because there's only me. I haven't got people to manage, I haven't got bosses and people above me telling me what to do and what needs to be done right now. All these e-mails just come in, so you need to drop everything and do. It was I can’t take it. I’m completely at my own pace now, which is good.
Bonny Snowdon 07:08
It is. I used to work in corporate. Before, I was a senior manager, I used to work in a really busy repro house. It was triple shift. So, you'd either have a shift that starts at six in the morning, or one that started at nine, or one that started at one o'clock in the afternoon. I constantly found myself doing triple shifts every single day. So, I'd be starting at six, and I'd still be there at six or midnight or whatever. It was literally that fast paced advertising where you had a stack of work to do and there was like that, we need this one, and you'd be speaking to clients. That actually was brilliant. I bet you found this as well, a really, really great environment to be in. To them when you come to know, when we work and we look back, and we think I'm busy but [Inaudible].
Zoe Fitchett 08:08
Definitely. I think that life experience has really helped, isn't it? Because I think for anyone that comes into it from maybe a part time easy job. For example, they're really young, and they're just starting out and they haven't really got anything to compare it to. So, of course, it's going to seem really overwhelming. Like there's always tons of things to do, but it's definitely a learning experience. You just got to go with the flow.
Bonny Snowdon 08:34
Definitely. As well as, I've got a reel that I actually just took some video content of it yesterday, because I was thinking, what are the two main things as a working artist that I spend the most time doing? It's filling the dishwasher and moving washing from the washing machine to the dryer. I must do that about 10 times a day. My children don’t understand the concept of opening the dishwasher door and putting something in it. They just stuck it all in the sink.
Zoe Fitchett 09:07
It's those boring mundane tasks that just interrupt your arty flow. Like I'm in the zone and I go out to get a drink water and then oh my goodness, there's a heap of stuff that interrupted. But I try not to let it get to me too much because I quite like that little interruption here and there. I think that's probably just the way I've always worked really. It doesn’t bother me.
Bonny Snowdon 09:38
Yeah, I guess, very similar to me, you'll find yourself in a set routine. Well, I'm trying to remove quite a lot of the admin that I do. I tend to work nine till about four. In all day I will administer meetings, all of that kind of thing. Then my drawing, if I can start at six, I'll start at six, I can get a good six hours in. Generally, I don't tend to start till about seven and then sometimes it's not until eight. Just recently, I've been maybe getting about two hours of drawing in a day. It's not enough because I can't get enough done. But it's also not enough for my well-being. I need to draw it for much longer. Also, if you start drawing at eight, realistically, it means that I've been doing stuff up until that time, and then I'm just really tired. I'm trying to shift things around. You'd have thought, wouldn't you? I've now a team of five that I work with, not all full time. But I've got a team of five. You'd think that I'd be like, I don't have to do any of that stuff now. It's got to the point where I'm doing more and more and more and more and more of the admin side stuff. It's not that I don't like it, but it's not what I do best.
Zoe Fitchett 11:02
Yeah. How have you found that delegation side of things? Did you say you've worked with people? Have you managed people in the past? So that's the same as before?
Bonny Snowdon 11:14
Yeah. So, when I worked for Aviva, they had an internal studio at their head office in New York. They were designers, account managers and then there were print buyers and everything like that, as well. I was the studio manager. So, I was managing the designers and the account management side of stuff. Actually, when I first started as a manager, it goes this way, doesn't it? When you're working your way up in a business, you tend to go from one role, and then you get put into a more senior role. I didn't know how to be a manager; I just knew how to do my work.
Zoe Fitchett 11:54
Get thrown in.
Bonny Snowdon 11:55
Yeah, exactly. It was only until I understood and started in the coaching side of stuff that I realized that delegation was really, really important. Being able to delegate to people and allow them to make mistakes and learn and everything actually gives you a much better team. So, I learned to be really good at delegating. I am brilliant at delegating. I'm just like, I don't really want to do this. So, who would like to do it? Because I've even delegated my packaging. I've got a really, really lovely lady who comes and cleans for me on a Monday. This all sounds like; I'm sitting here thinking I've got to clean and I've got this. It all sounds like I don't do anything. I'm incredibly lazy. I'm on the go all of the time. She's now started to do my packaging for me.
Zoe Fitchett 12:46
Amazing.
Bonny Snowdon 12:46
It sounds like I'm really lazy and I probably am. But I know in my head what I'm really good at and I know in my head what I'm not good at. So, the delegation side of stuff I don't find an issue. I think quite a lot of artists do find it hard to delegate things.
Zoe Fitchett 13:05
Yeah, I think there's a bit of a stump there. I find it personally that knowing that you need to offload something timewise or efficiency wise, if it's not something you're very good at, or you don't like very much, then I think a lot of artists would like to be able to delegate something, but it's the how and setting it all up. Who do you go to? How much are they going to charge? How do you fund that? All of that sort of thing completely throws me and I know it would probably do the same for a lot of others.
Bonny Snowdon 13:38
Yeah, I get that. When I first started, Lucy joined me in October 2020. What I was finding was that I didn't have enough time to draw, and I wanted somebody to help me with the social media side of things. Also, things like Patreon, I wanted somebody to help me set up my website, so it'd be easier for people to find stuff. I got it in my head that I wanted to create my own platform, but I wasn't quite ready yet. So, I took Lucy on two days a week, just to help with things like emails, and helping me a little bit with social media. Not doing my social media, because I've always done my own social media. I think it's really, really important. If somebody doesn't get you and they don't talk in your voice, that's really hard. But what she did was she just came in, actually, at the point where I was putting out a tutorial kit. She helped me with all of the emails that were going out. She helped me set up automated things a little bit better, and just started to organize things for me. Very quickly she went from two days to three days and now she works four days a week. She's on the payroll and she's incredible. She's absolutely incredible. She's so organized. Now we're running campaigns. Obviously, with the academy and everything, and we've got so much in the backend of the website. All of these automated emails and funnels, and it's such a huge difference to how I used to work. Because I made a business plan. I think this is where it stems from, if you've got a plan, you're thinking, this is where I want to be, then you can start to plan. So, do I need somebody to help with the customer service? Do I need somebody to help with the emails? Do I need somebody to help with community management, that kind of thing? The customer service side of stuff, for me has been just huge, moving from Patreon, they do all of the customer service or not particularly well. To my own platform, I have to do my own customer service. The number of emails that we get through every day is astounding, with questions and all of this sort of stuff. So, I don't have time to be able to field all of those and do everything else that I'm doing. So, it was almost a case of it's necessary. This is what I have to do. But I also think there's a bit of a leap of faith in there as well.
Zoe Fitchett 16:29
Yeah, definitely. Its knowing where you want to go, isn't it? That's for sure. Because as soon as you know where you're going, it's a bit easier to make those kinds of jumps. But I think if you're just taken a stab in the dark, will this work? I don't know, let's try it out. But then it's just constant. Experiments, as I like to call them. Because I feel like the last couple of years, I've tried loads of things. I feel like, if I was calling them failures, then I would have had failure after failure after failure. I try not to word it like that, because I've obviously learned things from all of them. But it can be a little bit disheartening. On social media, obviously, we see everything that everyone wants to share. So, that's usually the ups, isn't it? Then you see things going well for other people and you think well, I can try something along those lines, that will work for my business. You could put in all the effort in the time that I personally have quite limited time, because I've obviously got the two children. Other people have other things as well. But it can be hard to then try something new, and you find that it's just not going to plan or it doesn't work out in the way that you hoped. Because things like Patreon, I've tried that thinking that I built up quite a good following, I get people asking me all the time. How do you do this? How do you do that? Can I learn from you? Have you got any tutorials? So, I thought well, okay, there's obviously a lot of people out there that are interested. I've put in quite a lot of time into making tutorials and things. Personally, I felt like Patreon was just a massive flop for me, like there were people that were interested and engaged in it, but very few. In comparison to the people that seemed interested, the actual feedback and the engagement that I got was very, very small.
Bonny Snowdon 18:35
It's really frustrating. You're right to call them they're not failures at all, because I think everything that we do in life, it's that learning, isn't it? We were talking about when we're in corporate everything we've learned there, it's those life skills that we're picking up. There’re tons of stuff that I've done that haven't worked. I've tried to sell prints, tried to sell cushions and mugs. I think I sold one mug. I did an art fair; I didn't sell one thing. I spent a fortune; I didn't sell anything. For me, my heart wasn't in those things really. I wasn't that enamoured with it, that was kind of giving it a go. Patreon, I think is a is a funny thing. I love the article, the post that you put in Instagram about it. I think patron has been the cause of quite a lot of mental health issues with artist. That's one of the reasons why I'm moving away from it. Patreon has been brilliant for me, but I don't know what I've done differently. I run a campaign that I didn't purposefully run it. But I was teaching people and like you were doing hints and tips, and this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I ran that for probably about 12-18 months before I started my Patreon. But I also ran a lot of marketing bits and pieces behind it as well and got people to join waitlist and all of that kind of stuff, which I think probably helped, too. But that whole thing with Patreon, where it's that culture of people jump in, and then they just cancel straightaway. So, you see figures going up, and then immediately they go down. With Patreon, you've probably got a churn rate of between 8%, and 15%, every month, and that goes with everybody really. It can be really heart-breaking when you see, like 100 members leave, you think, what have I done wrong? It isn't anything we've done wrong; I think it's a culture that Patreon has created. Its high end. Your tutorials might you, we spent so much time creating these tutorials, putting the voiceover in them, creating really amazing art. Then we sell them for peanuts. Then people don't join, you be crazy. I honestly think it's a culture, because what you're doing now is you're putting the odd one up onto your website, aren't you, and selling them through there?
Zoe Fitchett 21:32
If I make more, though, I think I've come to the conclusion that I don't want to spend any time. This is kind of a delegation thing almost, is that, I don't want to be spending the time editing footage, putting together a voiceover all of that side of things. Because I'm quite comfortable with doing things live, I've just said to people, if I'm going to do anything else, tutorial wise, I'm just going to put it live and you can just watch it on YouTube. Because then eventually, views and what you have would potentially earn through YouTube. So, it's not like handing out everything for free. Because it's so helpful, isn't it? Having stuff available for free, but then if I can cut out all of that time of putting together the footage and all of that side of things, which it seems to take me so much longer. I don't know if other people it takes just as long but my process just seems to take forever. I don't have the technical capacity to actually deal with large videos because I was having to remove all apps or every single thing off of my laptop to even be able to export it. So, it was just a complete path. I think there's other routes to go down.
Bonny Snowdon 22:51
I think this is another thing that people aren't aware of, of how flipping enormous, like, half an hour of video footage is. I've got this 32-terabyte drive. It's huge. It's absolutely huge. I had to buy that to be able to put all of my video footage on it. Then of course, I tend to record on to SD card. Then I have to take that and then I have to copy that onto my hard drive or whatever. So, that takes ages. But when I record, I do all of my voiceover as I'm drawing.
Zoe Fitchett 23:34
Yeah, it definitely speeds up. I've done a few like that since my youngest is a little bit older. But I think the tutorial side of things is really good. As a side income earner, you've obviously made quite a big part of your business, isn't it? But for a lot of artists, it's like a good side hustle almost. It's like you could potentially make a little bit of money from teaching. But I don't think it's actually where a lot of people would like their business to go necessarily. It's just this thing that you see others doing it. So, that must be one of the only ways that you can make money through being an artist. I think a lot of people can get swept into that.
Bonny Snowdon 24:19
Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. You'll see time and time again when people are going, oh, gosh, I want to make a living being an artist and you'll go, oh, well just do a Patreon. You'll make a full income there. Actually, it's not true. I think that is something that happens. As an artist, you either do pet portraits, or you do prints or you do merchandise or you do art fairs, or you go down the teaching route. Actually, there's so much more to it. It's about really thinking well what is it that I actually want to do? Your concentration is on your wildlife pieces at the moment, aren't you? I know that you're doing. I love the piece that you've just had that the huge, what is it?
Zoe Fitchett 25:10
The buffalo. Yeah, he is an African buffalo.
Bonny Snowdon 25:13
Then you've got the tiny one. You're doing like 100 of the tiny, tiny ones. That's the amazing.
Zoe Fitchett 25:21
Thank you. It's definitely fun to play around with the scale. I love the little ones for slotting in here and there. Like I was saying earlier around the kids and stuff. They're just handy to be able to pick up and put down. But it's a nice little project that I've kind of picked up. It was supposed to be a little side project, but you know how those side projects just become quite a big project. Oh, actually, there's quite a lot of work involved in this. But it's really fun to have a go drawing animals that I wouldn't necessarily have drawn on a larger scale. That's good for that.
Bonny Snowdon 26:00
Do you exhibit your work? Do you enter competitions? Or is your wildlife work purely for just private collectors.
Zoe Fitchett 26:11
To be honest, I felt like I'm still really early in the process of becoming a wildlife artist, because I entered into it with the intention of being a wildlife artist and I went full time. But then I painted these big pieces, and they weren't selling straightaway, because I didn't have a big collector base, then I think. I had clients that were interested more in pets. Because I've done a few on the side. Then it takes a little while doesn't it? To build up the right kind of client base. So, I then ended up doing a few pet portrait pieces, and I just snowballed from there, really. Then I spent the next two and a half years with back-to-back pet portraits almost, to redo things a little bit and try to put more focus on the wildlife again. But my plan really is to just make the larger wildlife pictures. So, either paintings or drawings for both, and then exhibit them. Like raise money, funds, to support for wildlife conservation projects. Also just raise awareness because the small ones I've been doing, I put up a few stories of them recently just saying like, do you know what this animal is? Because it was one of the more unusual ones. There were loads of people that guessed correctly. Some good guesses, but there are loads of people that have no idea what that is. So, it's quite cool to be able to have that platform to educate people as well of all these other animals that you’ve never heard of.
Bonny Snowdon 27:49
Yeah, definitely. And if you've got a passion for that kind of thing, as well. I guess the commission work for me is now a quite a small part of what I do, the teaching side of things is I'd probably say about 90% of everything that I do. I have to say I really love drawing my domestic animals. I've got a real soft spot for horses, dogs and cat. I’m drawing a cat at the moment, and it's alright. But I'm quite enjoying doing it. It's a very strange colour. But it's funny, I did an African wild dog as a tutorial. I did it and I enjoyed it because I enjoyed the drawing process. But I didn't feel a connection with the animal at all. Do you tend to find that you have almost like you get this connection with your subjects and it's like you just cannot wait to get stuck in? But with the African painted dog, I just didn't feel that connection at all. It wasn't a really enjoyable portrait to do, which I found really quite strange. I reflect on things quite a lot. I was thinking, I don't know why I didn't connect with it or enjoy drawing it that much. Do you get that with the pieces? Or do you find that?
Zoe Fitchett 29:15
I think sometimes. I just love most animals and the wild ones I think particularly you'll see from my feed is just predominantly African animals. I don't know what the attraction is. I just love all of those animals. I do like birds and things as well. But this mini project has shown me that there are some species that I'm like, nah, that's just really not for me. I enjoy drawing anything really but there are some that I love doing and there are others that just feels like it's a drawing of something there isn't as much connection. I think for me that it's the insects, the reptiles, some of the marine life. When I was looking into the reference photos and things of the whales and sharks. I was looking at all these lovely reels of this, like amazing footage that people have of whales and I was, I actually didn't know what it is. That process of looking into them a bit more has made me appreciate them in a different way. So, it has, in some ways, it's shown me animals that I would love to draw more of and that I wasn't expecting to enjoy. Then others it's just confirmed to me that yeah, I'm just not fast on. As lovely as the animal is and just there isn't as much of a connection. Yeah, I definitely say that is the case.
Bonny Snowdon 30:39
Yeah, I follow one whale ones. Honestly, some of them I don't know how they get the footage. Absolutely amazing. I’m watching this Netflix series at the moment, my children think I'm mad. It's a South Korean Netflix series called Extraordinary Attorney Woo. It's absolutely good. I just love it. It's about this girl who is autistic and she is an attorney. She's called attorney Woo and she loves Wales. Just loves Wales. My daughter was like, well, is that Scotland? I was like, no, not the country whales. She loves the marine whales. She just loves them. How they've created this series is that every time she has this bit of inspiration and she's beautiful. They're all beautiful, just beautiful people. This inspiration comes along and her hair gets wafted away and she does this and her hair walks away. Then you'll see this whale just swimming past the window or jumping up and splashing down into the water. It's absolutely fantastic. She just gets so moved by these incredible creatures. That's all she wants to talk about. But it's a brilliant series. It's all in Korean with subtitles. But I'm loving it. My children think I'm crazy.
Zoe Fitchett 32:15
The little rabbit holes, you can find some very interesting stuff on there.
Bonny Snowdon 32:20
Yeah. My youngest they just take themselves off now. They've all got their own cars and everything and off they go just doing their own thing. I think I’m on my own now. I think both of them have and he's gone off to work. My daughter's just gone off to the gym.
Zoe Fitchett 32:37
Yeah, busy. Nice not to have to, like, plan all of this stuff for the day for them. Just do their own thing.
Bonny Snowdon 32:50
It's great. That sort of taxiing thing. But then the worry now that I'm getting is oh, when they all go to their home. I’ll be on my own with the dogs.
Zoe Fitchett 33:05
Do you enjoy your own company?
Bonny Snowdon 33:08
Do I enjoy my own company?
Zoe Fitchett 33:09
Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 33:12
Oh, God. Yeah. I think I'm what people call it an extroverted introvert, I think. I'm quite happy in groups of people who I know quite well. This sounds really bizarre, but I'm quite happy to go into a big room of people, if we're talking about a subject that I'm really happy to talk about. But if I was to say, somebody invited me to a party or something like that, and I didn't really know anybody, I wouldn't be very comfortable going into that. I'd be absolutely fine. But I wouldn't be very comfortable. But I'm really, really, really happy in my own company. I love being with my dogs just in studio and just drawing. I love my own company. Well, really.
Zoe Fitchett 34:01
Yeah, me too. I feel like I didn't get enough of it at the moment. I think when you are introverted, it's kind of how you recharge, isn't it? Being on your own?
Bonny Snowdon 34:13
Yeah, definitely. So, this past 18 months I've made some really big changes mentally for me, because of all the stuff that's been going on and everything like that. One of the things that I'm really not very good at is taking time out for me to do stuff just for me. I tend to do things for other people. I tend to think I just need to be really busy. Because if I'm really busy, I don't need to think about all of the other rubbish that's going on. Actually, doing that work internally over the last 18 months has made me realize how important it is to take time out for just me. So, very indulgently, I've just joined a spa which sounds very indulgent, but actually, it costs less than going to the swimming pool every day. So, if I was to go to my local swimming pool every day, and do 50 lengths or whatever, that will cost me more than being at the spa every month. So, I've been this morning and I've been in the lovely cold natural pool. I've been in there. I've been in the sauna; I've been in the thermal pool. Then I've sat on a bed with a duvet over the top of me outside and a heated thing. Just reading my book and it's been really nice. As long as there's not loads of people around, that just totally literally re-energizes me. I’ve realized that I really love water. I just love it.
Zoe Fitchett 35:46
That sounds amazing. I think I'm in that period of my life with two small children. I just need to grab every moment that you can. I think, looking ahead, that sounds like something I definitely like to do.
Bonny Snowdon 36:03
Yeah, it's really nice. Whether I could have done that when my children were small, I don't think I could. I know there was my husband back then, when the children were small, and it helps massively there's two of you to share. It just does, because one of them can take them and do bits and pieces. I became single when my youngest was at 13, 14. So, it wasn't that bad. They were all at school, and they could all mention themselves, really. So, it was okay. But yeah, I don't think I'd want to be. Well, you would have managed, wouldn't you?
Zoe Fitchett 36:48
Yeah, you can. My eldest, his dad is not my current partner. So, I was married to him. We got married quite young. But then it was about five years into it, he became really distant. I was like, oh, no, what's happening here and actually turned out that he came out. So, he's gay and our marriage had to end and stuff. But we remained friends through it all. So, my son goes between the two of us, so I have like one and a half children. Because his dad has him half of the time.
Bonny Snowdon 37:30
Well, that's really nice. That's really nice, though. They've still got that relationship and everything,
Zoe Fitchett 37:37
Yeah, it's a brilliant setup, because he's still local. We're both very chilled out people. So, there was never any need for any animosity or any kind of drama. So, it helps out in that sense, because then I haven't got two children full time constantly. But then my partner obviously helps out with us when he's around, because he has his own business as well. So, two self-employed people with children is a bit of a head spin sometimes. It's just got to try and keep up with everything. But it's doable. Like you say, you just managed, didn’t you?
Bonny Snowdon 38:21
Well, because otherwise, what would you do? You just have to do it, don't you? I know you've not come off Patreon. But the tutorials answer with your main focus. But have you got plans for the future then for anything? Or is it just like day to day just enjoying what you're doing, building that portfolio up?
Zoe Fitchett 38:52
My goal really is to become an established wildlife artist. To know that people know me for the wildlife art, and then I get collectors that they're after a certain animal or whatever it is. But as I said earlier, I'm still in that transition stage where I feel like I'm quite early on in the process. So, I still have portrait commissions in the diary that I'm chipping away at. I haven't shared those so much lately, because that's not my focus. So, I feel like whatever you put out on social media, you get back that people are interested in. So, I've had to stop posting that online, which has meant that I then you have to work twice daily to make sure you've got content for social media to the people that you that you're trying to reach. Then also do the work for the people that are actually bringing in my income. So, I feel like I've got a bit of a double life at the moment. But I'm trying to fit in things where I can and then eventually, I am stopping. I have a few pet portrait commissions that I will take on for next year, but there are only going to be existing clients that have asked for something and I've already got a relationship with them. So, I think I'm trying to phase out, but I don't know. I don't know how quickly I'll be able to do that. I take it as it comes. What I'm not going to do is fill up the whole year with more pet portrait commissions, because I just know that that's not where my heart is anymore. Obviously, I still like doing it. Because otherwise, I would just say no, and I'd cancel them. But it's definitely something I'm wanting to phase out because it's just not where I want my business to go. I want it to be all about the wild animals and raising awareness and support for conservation. So, this year, I've taken a bit more of a purposeful leap into it if you like. So, in all of the gaps that I had, because I did have a few spaces here and there to put in a few bits of wildlife work around the pet portraits. But in all those gaps, I've just grabbed every bit of time I can to make something that's either for an exhibition like competition. So, at the David Shepherd, I've entered the explorers against extinction when I've entered the sheer and then I've been chatting to loads of other artists on Instagram to just open my eyes a bit more to see what's available, what other people do, how other people have gone about their journeys and things to become a wildlife artist or incorporate the conservation side of things. So, that's been really fun. But it's definitely been a year of getting out of my comfort zone for sure. So, I think that's really helped.
Bonny Snowdon 41:43
Yeah, but it's good, isn't it? To get out of your comfort zone. So, I'm really excited about doing human portraits, and I've got some massive ideas that I want to be doing. Which is way, way out of my comfort zone, and very, very different to what I'm currently doing. I'm leaning when I'm looking at some reference photos, and I'm looking at having my own photography done as well. I'm finding I'm getting more excited about the human side of things than I am about the animals, which I don't know whether I need to be worried about. I still love drawing animals; I absolutely love them. That is definitely my comfort zone. Actually, we're doing a human study at the moment in my art club. It's amazing how many people are like, oh, my goodness, I love that you're doing humans now. I want to draw my grandchildren. So, it's actually been quite a good step for me. Yes, and I've just done my first flower, which has been very, very strange. It's really weird. When you think about it, they're all just shape and colour, aren't they? And values that's all it is. For me, it's all about that connection, what connection do I have with the subject? Or with the particular photograph that I'm looking at? Do I feel some excitement around it? Do I feel a bit guilty about oh, gosh, what can I do here, there, I'm doing a lot of Photoshop manipulation with some photos as well, so that I bring my ideas into things? So, it's not just taking a photo and copying it, which is never about taking a photo and copying it. When we're realism artists because it just isn't. We bring our own in anyway. But bringing my ideas through into there. That's been really, really exciting me as well. So, it's some quite a lot of things. I don't know whether you're the same as me. But I'm always looking for the next thing, I used to work on archetypes before. The seeker comes up quite strongly for me, not in the Harry Potter's. But the person that's always looking for the next thing. One of the things I'm really not good at is celebrating my wins. I'm like, yeah, we've done that right. What's next? I don't know, it's something that that's who I am and what I do, but one day, I'm hoping that I'm going to get to a point where I'm like I'm really happy with just where I am. Do you get that kind of thing?
Zoe Fitchett 44:31
Yeah, I think it takes a bit of practice, isn't it? Like you really consciously have to stop and look, I found anyway. Because I could probably list out about three or four collections of work that I have in my head, like, I would love to do this. This is a whole body of work that I've created and I've looked into reference photos and I've got really excited about it. I'm like, okay, great. But then I've had to put it on the side and then turn away with whatever I've got going on at the moment and then another idea pops in my head. Then I can create a whole new body of work just from that one, I get really excited about that as well. It can be a little bit frustrating because with realism and some of the scales that I work on, each piece can take weeks of work. So, then when you spread it out to create a whole collection of pieces that are if you've got, say, five pieces in a series or a collection, at least, and then you think of all the other things that come up and stop you from doing something or interrupt you. It could be a year, before you've even got round to starting the first piece or something. Then I find, I'll get so excited about something that I might get the paper ready, or I'll get the canvas ready, I'll draw it up, and I'll make a start. So, I think if I've made a start on it, then there's no excuse that it's there, and it's ready for me. But then life happens, and it gets interrupted. So, that's the thing that happened with the buffalo actually. So, that's a series that I wanted to work on when I first went full time, because I set out that quite a big challenge myself as if I'm going to go full time, I'm just going to go for it. I'm going to do this massive set of the Big Five from Africa. So, I started with the leopard, threw myself into that, that was the first hyper realistic painting that I'd done. I learned a lot on the way and then I was like, let's build up all the momentum and try and get some interest in this. I had quite a few people interested in it. But it actually took about seven months for that painting to sell, and it sold through a gallery. In those seven months, obviously, I can't just sit around waiting, because I've got mortgage to pay and all the other stuff. So, that whole series ended up just on the backburner and the next piece that I started just got put in the wardrobe, which is the buffalo that I've finally got him out and finished him off. But then it could be another seven months, it could be a year, it could be whatever until he finds a home. So, it's that constant battle I find. Being really passionate about something and wanting to do the next thing, but then also being held back by, actually wait a minute, how am I going to buy the food for this month or things like that. It's the challenge of not having established any kind of passive income. Because I've tried in places, I've tried making prints, I've tried with Patreon, I've tried with various other things. But so far for me a passive income hasn't been something I can rely on to then give me the time to get involved with anything else. So, it's like a catch 22 I am constantly chasing my tail.
Bonny Snowdon 47:49
Yeah, definitely. Do you do a regular mailing list or newsletter or anything?
Zoe Fitchett 47:55
I mean, I have a mailing list. I've got subscribers, so probably over 100 people on there, but I don't tend to email out often. Is something that I forget about to be honest.
Bonny Snowdon 48:09
That is a really great way to build up, something like people who are waiting for your pieces. So, that could be something that you could introduce. I send a newsletter out every week now, which when we first started talking about it, I was like, every week, I was like, people want to hear from me every week. They really do. When I was thinking, oh, God, everybody would be unsubscribing. But then I subscribed people and I really love getting. If I subscribe to somebody is because I want to hear from them. If I don't want to see their stuff, that particular week there might not be anything that's actually what I'm interested in. But I don't unsubscribe. Actually, it's a really, really great way of building up that list of potential buyers and collectors. You'd end up selling a painting before you have actually painted it.
Zoe Fitchett 49:10
Yeah, that's a good. I think the marketing side for me has been a constant struggle, because it's just expected, isn't it? When you become your own boss, you've got your own business and you just have to do it. So, I didn't do any marketing or business studies when I was at school or college, which I am gutted about because I would have loved to have those skills right now. But it's just been something I've had to learn on the go and learn what works and mostly what doesn't work, to be honest. But it's a side of being an artist that it's something you have to do. I've relied heavily on Instagram if I'm honest, but it's not where all of the people that are likely to buy my work are actually going to be.
Bonny Snowdon 50:01
It is. I think marketing is one of the main things that the majority of artists struggle with. Because it's really hard. It's like a whole job all of its own.
Zoe Fitchett 50:14
Yeah.
Bonny Snowdon 50:18
It's a constantly battle with the algorithms and everything like that. The thing as well is that it's about just keeping on going. It's about just keeping on, keeping on, keeping on, keeping on. The problem is that it's like dieting, isn't it? If you don't see the results, if I go on a diet and haven't lost a stone the next day, I give up. But you just do it little, by little, by little, it can really build momentum up. It can be it can be really successful. But it's a tough one, it is a tough one, the marketing side of stuff. A lot of it is down to people's personalities as well. Whether they are happy to put stuff out there or do this or do that and do the other and it is, it can be really frustrating.
Zoe Fitchett 51:07
In the early days, who did you hold yourself accountable to? Because I find that that is something when you are your own boss, and you do your own thing, it can be easy to procrastinate, can't you? You put all of the stuff off that you not really fast on? I could quite easily put out a blog post and an email every week or every couple of weeks, if I put my mind to it. But there's no one there that's telling me, you need to do this, you better do it.
Bonny Snowdon 51:36
When I first started being full time, I didn't really do anything. I just posted my stuff on social media, but I didn't really do any blogs or anything like that. It was only really, when I was looking at starting the Academy, which was the beginning of 2021. We put an advert out to find somebody to help me create this platform, basically. Then I started working with this marketing consultant, she actually lives in France. She's like a creative membership experts’ person, and she is absolutely amazing. She was like, right, you need to do a newsletter every week. From that newsletter, the content in that newsletter, then you put into a blog, you then put it into YouTube. So, you just repurpose all of this content. I was like, my head was spinning. I was like, you need to do this, this, this, this, this and this. We need to have lead magnets and I'm like, hang on a second, what? I literally just went, you know what, you sound like you know what you're doing. I'm going to do what you're telling me to do. It was a massive learning curve. Now that is all now part of the main strategy. When we're thinking about the next, so I'm launching in about three weeks, but the next launch will be January. So, we're now thinking about that, we're now thinking about what lead magnets are going to go out, we're now thinking about what adverts are going to go out, we are now thinking about what live streams are going to go out. Part of me is really excited and part of me thinks, oh, my God, this is just too much. This is like being back in corporate again, and having to adhere to all of these deadlines and everything. So, I find myself constantly in this battle of, I just want to sit and draw. I do want to grow my business, to I just want to sit and draw again. It is a bit of a constant battle for me, but I really like where my business is going. I really like that actually, there's only me to look after my children. I can now make sure that my children have got a really nice life. When I'm gone, they've got something, they've got a legacy that's left behind. That's my whole purpose of doing this. I absolutely love it. So, I love working with people and I love helping people. I love seeing people succeed, but it's a battle. It is a constant battle. I just wanted to be me and my studio just drawing and then having to do all of this other stuff. It's tough, but I just do it.
Zoe Fitchett 54:41
I've been listening to Mel Robbins, the speaker, coach, whatever she is, she's brilliant, but she's got a new set of episodes out on Audible, and I started listening to a few of those a moment. I'm only a few episodes in but she talks about the motivation and getting the right mindset for doing the things that you want to do. But you keep putting them off. She was talking about motivation being something that we're all waiting for that it's just going to one day or come along, and it'll help us to get our button gear and actually do things. Which is that it just doesn't, you have to just do it, you have to not want to go to the gym, but you go anyway, you want to eat some nice food, but you don't want to cook it up. So, you've got to do it anyway, all that stuff. It just applies, doesn't it? To the drawing side, if you procrastinate over that, which I don't tend to do, but the marketing side of it is the thing I would procrastinate big time. So, it's knowing the things that you need to do to get yourself to the next steps. But actually, sitting itself down there and doing it is another thing. I do think mindset, obviously is such a big thing, isn't it? In all of that. But holding yourself accountable to someone I think is also really handy. I don't feel like I have that person. Obviously, family are vaguely interested in what I do. But I feel like if I speak to friends or family about my artwork, they're all a bit like, yeah, I don't have anyone that's pushing me to the next level. So, I need to find that person.
Bonny Snowdon 56:23
Do you have like, a coach or anything that you work with on a regular basis?
Zoe Fitchett 56:27
No, I feel like I need one. I need someone that's like, come on, chap! chap! Get over there.
Bonny Snowdon 56:34
I think everybody should have a coach. I've got a handful of people I can introduce you to. Honestly, I see somebody every other week and she's absolutely amazing. She's helped with my head stuff. She's helped with decision making. It's like, my decision about Patreon was just tearing me up, I didn't know what to do. I was so worried that people would get really, really angry that I wasn't going to be putting any newer content out. I was so worried that people will be saying, oh, she's money grubbing. She's this, that and the other. Actually, I had to stop thinking about what other people were thinking, because I have no idea what anybody else is thinking and actually did what's right for me. Being able to discuss that scenario, and come up with a plan with somebody. She hasn't got a clue about what I'm doing on Patreon or anything. But she was there listening to what I was saying, and I was able to come up with a with a plan of action and go, you know what, this is what I'm going to do and I feel really happy about that. It was just helping somebody listening to me, and then asking relevant questions. I think it's really, really key, particularly. If you're wanting to build your business, having that sounding board, but also like you say, somebody that can hold you to account over things. Have you done this? You said you were going to do this? Why hasn't that been done? I think is a really good idea.
Zoe Fitchett 58:09
That's definitely going to be a leap of faith for me, because I know coaches you can get all varieties of fit for any kind of situation, but I've always had it in my mind that if you're going to go for a coach, it's going to be lots of money.
Bonny Snowdon 58:28
Not necessarily, you could always pick somebody who's training to be a coach. You probably will be able to get something for like 40 pounds, and you wouldn't need every single week. Just seeing them like once a month or something, or just have one session and you could be like, you know what, I feel really clear in my head now. I honestly would recommend getting a coach. I think it can bring much more clarity.
Zoe Fitchett 58:57
Yeah, definitely sounds like a good idea. Maybe it could be part of my birthday treat for myself. It's my 30th next week. You know when people ask you what you want for your birthday, most of my stuff revolves around my work because that's my hobby at the same time. So, I might get a little treat to myself as sad as that sounds. Actually, it'd be quite interesting to get some clarity on things just to know where I'm going, what I could be doing better, because that's always a good thing to know.
Bonny Snowdon 59:36
Yeah. Oh, I think that's a really nice idea and it's time for you as well.
Zoe Fitchett 59:41
Yeah, I didn't think that. Child free time to talk. Sounds perfect.
Bonny Snowdon 59:51
Well, I'm going to let you go. I'm going to go and see this man that's putting my gas bottles in so we can have some hot water. We run out of hot water yesterday. It's been really nice chatting, Zoe. We'll have to do it more often. It's been really lovely. Thank you so much for your time. Hopefully we'll chat again very soon.
Zoe Fitchett 1:00:19
Yeah. Lovely. Thanks for having me on, Bonny. Bye.
Bonny Snowdon 1:00:24
Bye. I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your coloured pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the coloured pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time.
