Ian Edited Podcast
Bonny Snowdon 00:06
Hello, I'm Bonny Snowdon, ex corporate person, a mother turned successful artist entrepreneur. It wasn't that long ago though that I lacked the confidence, vision and support network to focus on growing my dream business. Fast forward past many life curveballs, waves of self-doubt and so many lessons learned and you'll see Ignite, my thriving online colour pencil artists community, a community that changes members lives for the better and gives me freedom to live abundantly whilst doing what I love and spending quality time with my beloved family and dogs, all whilst creating my best artwork with coloured pencils, and mentoring others to do the same. But this life wasn't always how it was for me, it used to only exist in my imagination. I've created the It's a Bonny Old Life podcast to help increase people's confidence, share mine and my communities experience and hope through fascinating personal stories, champion the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and create another channel through which I can support others to realize their dreams. If you're a passionate colour pencil artist, or an aspiring one who's looking to create their best work, and a joyful life you love, you're in the right place. Grab a cuppa and a custard cream, let's get cracking. I met my next guest in 2016 when I first started creating animal portraits. Having a professional onside when you're starting an art business, honestly, it is such a blessing. We've stayed good friends and there's always a cup of tea and sometimes a biscuit when I visit which is usually every week and of course who wouldn't want to visit somewhere with an office dog and you'll hear a little more about the fabulous band during my next episode of It's a Bonny Old Life. So, without further ado, I'm delighted to introduce my fabulous framer, Ian Peacock.
Ian Peacock 01:50
Where do you want me to start? Hello.
Bonny Snowdon 01:55
Do you know, it's sounds funny when you've known somebody for so long, and then you sit across like we're sitting across now. So, let's just describe where we are.
Ian Peacock 02:03
Well, we're in my workshop, which is within a carpet business. So, I have a sectioned off part of the building and my outlet comes into my desk, looks on to an array of rags of various sizes, prices and quality.
Bonny Snowdon 02:20
The funny thing is, so his [inaudible] just out here now. Ian has got this beautiful little luxury, tight [inaudible] Ben, who's absolutely gorgeous and there's countless times when I've come in, Ben has been lying on this rug.
Ian Peacock 02:23
Yeah, he is there probably research, really. If you passes the Ben test, he's given a 10 out of 10 comfort rating.
Bonny Snowdon 02:48
So that makes me laugh every time I come in. Actually, I think anywhere where there's a business dog, I think-
Ian Peacock 02:57
Well, there was a business in Harriet called Morpheus, which as the name suggests, sold beds, and it had a Shar Pei kind of big saggy thing of skin sitting in the window and I swear that dog got more business than anything else put together. So, everyone will look in the window, oh, look at the dog, and then go in and pat the dog, and then said, oh you sold beds. You're in. They're used a bit similar. So, people come in, or ring me up and say, is Ben in? Okay, yeah and I was like, oh, great, because I wasn't going to come in and unless Ben is in. You look all right. Fair enough.
Bonny Snowdon 03:36
He's lovely dog and he's so good, nice and quiet.
Ian Peacock 03:39
He is. He doesn't yap or anything.
Bonny Snowdon 03:41
No. So, we've known each other for six years.
Ian Peacock 03:45
Bonny Snowdon 03:46
So when I first started doing my portraits, there are two framers inaudible Stella was doing something else. I don't know. I don't know why I chose you that I popped in to see you.
Ian Peacock 03:58
Bonny Snowdon 04:03
Then you've been sort of doing all my framing, all of the mounting of all of the pieces and everything ever since then.
Ian Peacock 04:10
Yeah, we have and it's been lovely. It's been a nice symbiotic relationship, I think.
Bonny Snowdon 04:17
Because you did have a little shop just around the corner actually, that has all sorts of different bits and pieces and everything in it and it was like an Aladdin's cave.
Ian Peacock 04:26
Of stuff. Well, I've been there for 30 years. So, as you probably might guess, from my appearance with the benefits of radio that I started as a small child but you do. You amass some stuff over those periods of time. You sort of moldings and frames and ideas and you don't want taken away because it's some really nice bits of kit and I've still got them.
Bonny Snowdon 04:57
How did you start? You've always been in framing.
Ian Peacock 05:03
You do your career choice at school and there were basically two options for me, because you were getting sort of peer pressure from above, such as my dad, my granddad's and all of that. So, I come from a long line of either engineers or soldiers and in some one case, both my grandfather was in the role engineers, and the commanders in the Second World War. So, that was the sort of options, you can be an engineer, or you can be a soldier, and I don't even fancy being a soldier. My dad was in the Special Forces. So, he's a full [inaudible] but I took after my mother, my sister takes after my father, who is that equal [inaudible]. I take after my mom, was a bit more creative. But it was never explored into those sorts of fields that I would do creativity, it was always a case of right maths, physics, chemistry, those sort of subjects, which I did, and I passed. So, I went to work for an engineering company in Derby, British Rail Engineering went to which we made trains and I'm pretty much knew within about a week or two, that I made a catastrophic error and didn't want to be there. However, I promised my granddad that I'd do it. He said well, being an engineer, then you can do whatever you want. So, I did. So, it was one of those weird things, my school didn't have A levels. So, you had a choice of either going out and doing further education A levels, at a college around the corner, or you went into what were called basic graduate apprenticeships back then and if you think about it, now, this is like, you tell the young people, what this is all about. It's a holy grail of jobs. So, they employ you, they don't pay much, but they pay you a wage. But they then train you to whatever, and then they send you to college and university. I mean, the course is tailored to the requirements in Derby, anyway, to either British Rail or Rolls Royce, which were the two big engineering companies there. So, there was a lot of specific engineering, which follow for the business. So, what did I do? I did an MSc, HMD, and then a degree, and came out when I was 21. But I got in at 16. So, for five years, I'd fulfilled my granddad's promise. But I knew I didn't want to be it. I didn't want to be an engineer and it's a great sort of background things to, sort of deal with everyday life. But it wasn't the calling I really wanted. I went and approached a friend of my father who was a professional photographer in Nottingham, and I said, hey, I was interning a great deal of money I was earning enough money to sort of pay to get into work, and feed me and that's about it. A night out on a Saturday was just a dream. So, I said, how about me coming to work for you on say, Saturdays, or whatever nights, and I will work part time doing whatever, I go for this and go for that and I did. I started and at the time, I was just sort of rolling up films into cassettes and passing whatever for the next shots. But eventually, after about a year, I was taking photographs, and after two years, I was doing weddings.
Bonny Snowdon 08:32
Oh, you were actually doing the photography?
Ian Peacock 08:34
Yeah. So, I became a photographer and this was all the time while I was doing my engineering course. So, it was hard. But also I had great times, great fun. So, you had weddings, if you can talk in a crowd of people at a wedding, especially after the ceremony when everyone was getting hammered on the campaign, you can deal with pretty much everybody.
Bonny Snowdon 08:34
Yeah. Because I mean, when you're at weddings and everything, everybody's like, I like photographers stroppy. A family thing.
Ian Peacock 09:09
There's a reason. He's herding kittens. That's basically what he's doing. People running away from the buffet, it's not open yet. That's how I started and then there was a mutual friend of the railway, who said look, I've got a mate of mine who wants to get married. Do you fancy doing his wedding? Oh, yeah. Fine. No worries. So, I went to his house, village. I think I've been down 19, 20 when I met him, and he would be about 22 and I rocked up and he had a fantastic house. He has a fantastic car. I'm thinking Christ, he's done well for himself. I asked him what he did. This is all you have to do, I am picture framer. This was in Derby. I thought, that's interesting and I thought initially that I would do photography and framing because they are parallel businesses if you like, you can do one and another. Lots of photographers who do framing and I spoke to my dad. At this point my mom and dad lived around where I was working until I was 18 and then they moved up to North Yorkshire. So, I said to my dad, look, I've got an idea for a business. What do you think? He ran it through? I mean, sort of looked at it and he said it's not going to cost too much. Do to have any [inaudible]. Yeah. So, at 21, when I'm finished at the railway, I had to be unemployed for 10 weeks, because back then Maggy Thatcher was doing this manpower services grand, which what it was you earned 40 quid a week from the government for your first year of business. So, I opened up the shop, the 40 quid a week was the only.
Bonny Snowdon 10:50
Here in [inaudible].
Ian Peacock 10:51
Yeah, in 86. The only thing I spent that time was 40 quid. I mean, I had a bike. I didn't have a car. So, I biked home and then all of an evening, I'd come and make the frame. So, it was quite busy within the shop, but you can't really get going. So, I've made the frames often evening, so about 10 o'clock and biked home, and repeat, repeat, repeat and then, after a year, I applied all that money that we made back into the business. I did that for a couple of years and it grew really, really quickly. But you can do it when you're 21. It's easy. No commandments in terms of wives and kids.
Bonny Snowdon 11:30
Did you have any teacher to do frame or was it just because you've got this sort of engineering background and you were just like I'll-
Ian Peacock 11:36
I shadowed the guy who did the framing for a day. He says, this is what you do, this is what you do, this what we do. Okay, let me do it. another one. At the end of the day, pitch framing isn't hard. It's not a trade, which is, there are elements to it, which are very, very skillful, can take a long time to learn. So, what should I learn; decoration, gilding frames, gold leafing and stuff like that is a very specific job and to be fair, is a craft all in itself? Part of the openness of pitch framing in general, you can dip in and out of but pitch framing itself isn't terribly hard to do. The hardest thing about framing, and it's something you just can't teach and I have taught a lot of framers to try and is what frame goes with what.
Bonny Snowdon 12:27
Yes, and trying to persuade the artist who comes in.
Ian Peacock 12:31
Trying to persuade the artists, they are the killers. That it's not about price.
Bonny Snowdon 12:36
Ian Peacock 12:38
It's not about price. Because if you put something that's 20 quid on a painting you're painting or storing 20 quid, or maybe 25. If you put something expensive onto a piece, that elevates the painting up, and then somebody says, actually, I can see why that painting is worth 1000 quid. The content of it looks like you've bought it in IKEA and that's the big thing, that's a hurdle, which most a lot of framers have to give, to get ourselves over. It's a leap of faith for an artist to do that.
Bonny Snowdon 13:14
I have to say working with a lot of artists, and I've done some Q&A with you and I do Kunos about framing, and people kind of ask questions and I think there aren't very many framers like you, who you can come in, and you can say, I've got this piece, what do you think? Because a lot of them will go what do you want? Then they'll go, oh, well just put a mount on it and let's have that frame and they'll go, oh, right, or they'll go, oh, well, we'll pick a color from in there.
Ian Peacock 13:50
We'll ask the other side of the coin. You end up with framers who you've got the ones who haven't declared. They come into framing late in life, because it's a business which they can probably do after they've retired. They've done a trade of something for 30 odd years and retired and then they go in framing business because the frame is retired. So, they've taken it on and they haven't an absolute Scooby Doo as to what goes with what because there's a brown frame, there's a gold frame, there's a silver frame, black frame, white frame. Pretty much the range of products that they sell, 30 moldings on the board. But what do you want? Show you the moldings? That's it. You need to mount on that. There's a little bit of green to pick out the green picture or whatever. But that's why you end up with horrible looking pictures. You do.
Bonny Snowdon 14:52
To put it bluntly.
Ian Peacock 14:53
To put it bluntly, you do and you're going, what the hell's that? What's the frame going on that? What's the artists doing, listen to a framer and what's doing absolutely. But generally, it's a price thing. It's not that bad, get it on the wall better than blue tack, and it was only 40 quid and you're going, no, you'd be better off sticking to blue tack and you're only spending 40 quid, and it still look better. So, the other side of that coin and I've seen it all the time framers with Instagram posts and stuff like this and it's the OTT framer, right, which is fine if you've got a piece of artwork, which requires that sort of thing. But I've taken some stuff whereby it's a really nice painting, it's a really nice piece of work, blah, blah, blah and certain framer has put on an essentially a frame that requires planning permission and it might be all the colours under the sun. Now, I know you've got quite a lot of Americans in there and they do this with mounting, or matting, as they say, so triple and quadruple matting, to get each individual colour of a piece of work in the board that surrounds it. Why? You don't have to extend the artwork out. What you do is you have to present that in a very tasteful way. By all means, pull out a colour, but do it subtly, I love the watercolor wash line, which is much more finer, and much more tasteful, as we say and there's a bit of a difference. I admit, if you've got something in like an American football shirt, or a hockey shirt, something like that, anything emblazoned with all colors in the rainbow sponsors and stuff like that, then fine, go for it and it'll look great in a sports bar, or somebody's gym. At home and it's just like, but if you're talking about a piece of work, which is going into someone's living room, or lounge or dining room or whatever, it's more subtle going on, this is more subtle approach. Otherwise, when you redecorate your room, you don't go a tan of paint and slash a bit of orange round room to pull out the orange that's in the sofa. But that's essentially the sort of thing that the framer is done with that work.
Bonny Snowdon 17:08
Yes. Well, sometimes there's not even a fine line, is it?
Ian Peacock 17:14
No, it's a complete blunt instrument.
Bonny Snowdon 17:19
So I'm guessing it's just been a case of learning and you were saying before that you were quite creative, anyway.
Ian Peacock 17:27
Yeah. Well, so what you do is, the frame is an interface between the artwork and where it's living. So, it's no good being sort of completely incongruous to both, you have to have a subtle blend, the whole thing to work. You have to be mindful of someone's interior. So, as such, the education, sort of give yourself self is one of you looking to fine arts books, and then you see how frames are made, be made over a period of time and the styles, and then the styles of where they're living and it includes all the way through it's not just, obviously, the most popular ones are probably the 17th, 18th, 19th century drawing rooms and you look at the big frames, and you look at the paintings, and you look at the furniture and all the rest of it, and you go, now, that really, really worked well. But then it extends it through. So, you've still got interior designers now producing really funky stuff. So, as a consequence, to keep up with trends if you've got something really, really funky, in a funky environment, then you can go funky on the frame. Let's all go disco and so, as a consequence, we've got fluorescent moldings over there, we've got multiple frames and stuff like that. It's not for everything. You don't bring that big stick out every day. But there are elements that you can use some more subtly within that, just to give a highlight and just a paint to zap open artwork and so that's the name of the game. But most of the time you're trying to make sure that the piece that you're framing is front to center. You want the frame to be a compliment rather than a competitor.
Bonny Snowdon 19:09
Yeah. Well, I know that you have framed some quite seriously expensive pieces of art and I know, I mean, you've got some absolutely colossal pieces. I don't know if they're still there, I mean, they're gigantic. But let's do a bit of namedropping of your frames.
Ian Peacock 19:30
I've framed some turns, which are pretty rare in private hands. I have framed Hockney's, I've framed quite a few sort of, in the modern art pieces where people have the sort of name game now. There's banks, I've framed Damien Hirst's, Tracy Emmons, who's the other guy is the guy, Steve Herring, is the New York artist. Will Holt, I have framed quite a few original War Horse to one collector.
Bonny Snowdon 20:10
I think they'll take out huge insurance.
Ian Peacock 20:13
No, what happens, well, I don't want [inaudible]
Bonny Snowdon 20:14
You just shove them in the drawer, don't you?
Ian Peacock 20:16
I ust put them in a drawer. It's something to stop the team of us getting on the table tops.
Bonny Snowdon 20:23
Don't joke about that.
Ian Peacock 20:26
We end up sort of saying to somebody who's got something which is worth north of a million quid, which has happened quite a lot. You go, right, okay. So, I then go to their house, which is fully insured, we then mark and point out, where are we going to frame it, bring the samples. Basically, the mountain goes to Muhammad. So, you end up with this thing at the end of the day, it's all safe and sound in their house, and then we then make the stuff and then take it to them, frame in there.
Bonny Snowdon 20:57
All right, so you don't bring it in here.
Ian Peacock 20:58
I don't bring it here. No, unless it's absolutely necessary. The turn we did, the guy brought it in. But we're in a position as far as if we left it in one of our drawers, the average burglar isn't going to be interested. Unless he know exactly what he's doing. There's a difference between a Turner and one of those over there, which is-
Bonny Snowdon 21:21
Or Bonny Snowdon.
Ian Peacock 21:22
Or Bonny Snowdon. You're right.
Bonny Snowdon 21:24
I think that you can quite easily [inaudible]
Ian Peacock 21:26
I learned that you specialize in animals.
Bonny Snowdon 21:31
I mean, that must be quite a thing to do, though, to have something that but not even that valuable, to have something that historic.
Ian Peacock 21:41
Oh, it's amazing. We did some Raul Dofees. He is a French, sort of, I suppose impressionist kind of artists and he had a studio in Paris, and he had a studio in the south of France and the painting we did was done in the south of France and it was in 1944. In 1944, the Vichy French down in the south of France, was still ruling the roost with Nazi backing and the Paris place would still be listening to the jackboots of the Nazi troops going past the tour whilst he was painting this. It's astonishing, really and it's obviously it's kicking off in Ukraine now. But we the artists trying to forge a historic recording of events that are going on there. This [inaudible] was just painting on this particular piece, it was a picture of the scene in the palm trees, the frame done there in South France in 1944. So, yeah, there is that momentous type stuff. We've framed some Picasso drawings, line drawings, which were really, really nice but they were done later. So, they were done in the 60s. So, even the die dance 73 or something like that. But he used to do it, he was prolific. But the sky would adore these sketches and, I wanted him framed very, very nicely. You don't have to try too hard and something like this is actually, this is quite a good example, when you have something like a line drawing, where it's simply just a piece of paper and in the case of these two Picasso's they were quite cubist in there. I think he was a goat or half man, half goat, but very, very simple. There was no decoration on it at all. It was just one single line. He had the ability to sort of do a drawing which without taking the pen off the paper. It was almost like that. So, we did that and this guy wanted it to look like he spent the money and he had spent the money. God knows how much to work, they're hundreds of thousands In terms of what he bought. But when we bid that, say he wanted them really looking nice. But again, simple. So, it was a very large in terms of glass size and downsize piece. So, it covered quite a bit of the wall. Even though the drawing was only about A3. He probably ended up with a sort of a three by two frame but the frame was gold leaf. He wanted handle gilded particularly gold leaf frame in a very simple manner. But you've got gold leaf and things out on the thing and we did black ball underneath which highlighted the father was blocked Troy and it look every inch of the money that it was purporting to be.
Bonny Snowdon 24:48
I mean framing is just so. I used to work in a gallery in Harrogate and some little like sketches little literally about an inch and they actually look spectacular and you spend like 1000 on this little image thing and then the frame was about two foot, almost like multiple mold and it just kind of grew out and, I mean, I think they look amazing.
Ian Peacock 25:18
They are interior design pieces at the end of the day, but you've got a sketch, which is, the same sort of principle you end up with a small sketch, you then oversize them out ,oversize the frame, not in terms of its width, but the glass area, so that it covers a large area on the wall, but it then looks for money. For a gallery, it's very important to do that. So, you're charging three grand for a piece. Well, if it's a postage stamp drawing, and it's got a two inch mountain and a tie, it's going to look like a bear mount, isn't it? It looks like a coaster and you're going to go it's three grands, and you go really? Well it is what it is. You're always going to stick a big frame on it, and you go it's three grand. Oh, yeah, three grand, I can see why it's three grand.
Bonny Snowdon 26:03
Yeah, gosh, isn't it funny?
Ian Peacock 26:05
Is it. It is smoke and mirrors a bit? Theatrical.
Bonny Snowdon 26:11
I don't know. I guess you get quite a lot of sort of characters and artists and also I guess, you get a whole raft of different people, you'll get.
Ian Peacock 26:21
You get to do the civilians as we call them. The normal person who comes in and he wants or she wants a painting framed and or picture framed or a photo, whatever it is, and you go, great and they do need the most help that they're most open. So, a lot of them say, I don't know what I'm doing, then you go, that's when I talk about spying. I just lay out the options and again A, B, C, D, or E, whatever, and the range of prices and you kind of say obviously, as a businessman, you wants to steer them to the more expensive stuff. But the reason why you want them to stare to the more expensive stuff is they want to go out and put it on the wall and go you know what, that was the business. Then what happens is, if you've done it really, really well, they you see them again, about two weeks later. They'll put it on the wall and go, what you framed the other day is just amazing. The problem is makes all the other little pictures look crap. So, they come in with all your pictures. Jobs done, your mission accomplished. You are sort of being genuine, as much are you trying to get the best out of the work.
Bonny Snowdon 27:30
Yeah. But you're running a business at the end of the day and it's a funny thing, that people don't tend to celebrate people's successes and then as soon as they realize that you're successful in business, they don't think it's a very good thing, particularly in the art world.
Ian Peacock 27:47
It's all free syndrome.
Bonny Snowdon 27:48
Ian Peacock 27:49
Yeah. It is actually, they quite like to see the starving artists and so it's some sort of more bonafide than the successful artist and again, what's all about? But it's a classic thing it's the shambling artists with the woodbine hanging out the mouth and in the artist gallery with no heating, and mixing paint and being just completely subsumed in their work. Well, they've still got to eat and it is quite nice when you get somebody like a Damien Hirst whose worth around 300 million, to actually be the success. Yes and I that's the problem with a lot of people, it's very weird. I don't understand that. I always think it's celebration of a person who's got a bit of grafting, or their skill, or whatever and they've gotten into success and I just don't understand that people who don't appreciate that. In a way, it's almost like, well, what do you do? Well, I'm a train driver. Great. He worth 70 grand as a train driver. Well, yeah, why aren't the artist who's painting the same thing, worth 70 grand as well. What do you want them to be worth 20?
Bonny Snowdon 29:03
This is really strange, isn't it? I think that kind of comes into even like with pricing art and stuff like that and it's really strange, because I obviously started out with something like 40 quid for a portrait you know, and people are even at that price for like, all I can get Dave Smith down the road to do it for 20 or I can get all my mate, I'll do it for free and actually, I saw a massive shift when we went higher and I started charging more for the pieces and actually people really start to then value what you're doing.
Ian Peacock 29:37
It is perceived value. Is that the words not changed. The fact that you're charging 500 quid now as opposed to 40-
Bonny Snowdon 29:46
Ian Peacock 29:47
Eight hundred, my God, my price is going up. I want them to see value. They're going to tell you something if you've paid 800 quid for it as opposed to 40, it's going to be huh, and the whole thing shifts, the whole ethos then shifts. Because if you've paid two pounds for a piece of work, and you're going to get that framed, the 25 quid frame is it's a non starter. Yeah, it's like get that rubbish out of my sight. I'm not putting that up there. It's an elevation.
Bonny Snowdon 30:22
Do you remember when, I think it was my biggest piece, the best piece I had done yet, it was back in 2018 and it was the three dogs that I've done and, and I had charged quite a lot for it at that point. But the frame and the glass was about three times the amount the portrait cost but it looked amazing.
Ian Peacock 30:45
Yeah. Because it's the end product. There's the artists have to think, professional artists and amateur artists have to think of the end product. So, it's a bit like, if you go back to engineering, I've built this engine, and you're going great. Sit the engineer the workshop, let's hear it. What's he going to do now, you've still got to design a nice car around it, it's still going to look good, it's still going to carry four people in the dock to get the shopping. You can't just rest on your laurels and say I've made that engine into the masterpiece. You have to have the accomponent to do the rest of the job and the person, the end punter is not interested in just buying the engine, he want in the full package and that's where the artist has to realize that they are part of the full package is not the be all and end all. There is the other junior partner by admission is the framer, but the framer is the guy who puts that work into someone's living room, and also adds perceived value. Because if I'm charging 300, 400 quid for a frame, and the end product, then goes up to 1200 pounds, and the artist should be sticking some money on thought whatever. The whole thing is, wow, looking at, your product is elevated along with your name, your reputation, and also the selling price at the end of the day.
Bonny Snowdon 32:09
I do think more and more people are kind of cottoned on to the fact that this is really important. The other thing that I find really fascinating in the framing side of things is the glass. Because, I mean, I never knew there was anything like non reflective glass or UV glass or anything like that and now every time I have a piece framed, we tend to use that museum quality glass, and it's expensive.
Ian Peacock 32:37
It's expensive, but it's not as expensive as it once was. So, when I first came across this I framed for a guy called John Blakey.
Bonny Snowdon 32:47
Oh, yes, I've got one of his pieces in my living room.
Ian Peacock 32:51
So John Blakey, he was painting, portraiture and crispy old men was basically what he is speciality was or very pretty girls. That was the two sort of things he did. He put four pieces in Langland Brasserie, in London and Piccadilly, which we framed and the framing was very nice, so god leaf frames and the owner of the places while it was jointly owned both between guy called Richard Shepherd, he was a chef, de partie and then Michael Cane was a silent partner. So, I had lunch with a pair of them, along with John Blakey. It was sort of like a meeting. We had a great time and if I recall, Steve Crown was there.
Bonny Snowdon 33:42
Are you sure this wasn't a greeny.
Ian Peacock 33:46
I know, he joined us, Steve Crown and his agent were there as well. He's like, well, fair enough. Well over thing. Anyway, we got chatted away and it was Richard Shepherd says, oh, yeah, we want that rare, really tricky glass. At that time, I didn't know what it was. I had to do an investigation as to what the glass was. I was horrified as to how much it cost. There was one import to bringing this in from Switzerland and it came in in its own, you gave them an order of the size. You didn't get a sheet of it. You go right, well, I want something which is 450 millimeters by 600 millimeters and it will come in, in the term packing case with polystyrene in a wooden box. The packing case alone is 100 quid. This thing was like Jesus, it's one piece of glass and it's 400 pounds, what's going on? It was. I did, I ordered this four pieces of glass and it was over 2000 pounds for the pieces of glass. Now those pieces of glass, now it's the same stuff. It's just lots more people using it. Production has gone into other areas that was just the Swiss factory were making it and it's gone into other areas and so the costs have come down ridiculously cheap. Yeah, it's still expensive compared to normal glass. But it isn't 450 pounds more cheaper..
Bonny Snowdon 35:07
But it makes such a difference.
Ian Peacock 35:09
It's a huge difference.
Bonny Snowdon 35:10
It's very different. So, the one we use is the art glass, isn't it and there were because I know some people are saying to me, oh, no, my frame, I won't use that, because you can't actually see through it. But that's a very different type of glass, isn't it?
Ian Peacock 35:25
That's non reflective, you're talking to the old non reflective, which was from the 60s and in the 50s, which is diffused, so it's stiffled and so it works like a shower screen. So, if you pull your hand away from a shower screen, you can't see the image, if you press the your hand up against the shower screen, you can then see your finger, fingerprints. The problem is, the diffusion works the same, that light diffusion, it scatters the light, it also scatters the image. So, it has the effect of looking like everything's covered in tracing paper. It's awful stuff. But that is the old nonreflective. The product we've got now is anti reflective. So, it's got an optical coating, which is clear, which does the same sort of job. But, I mean, this is obviously a technical thing, but it scatters light, but only with through the optical coating. So, it's not a physical scattering of light. So, you end up with 1% reflectivity. Normal glasses, something like 12, 15%. So, you can see in a mirror is 100%. So, you end up with this sort of like, strange stuff. I mean, we have it on the bench and there are times when you can't actually see it on the bench.
Bonny Snowdon 36:44
Honestly, I have all my pieces done with that when I can. When I bring them home, I set them up with a thing, and the children will be like, I have God's putting that on making. How's that work? Then, I'm like, no, he's got a glass in there. Look, look, we'll get very giddy.
Ian Peacock 37:00
If they extend it to the construction industry, and start making patio doors in it, it's going to be a lot of bent places. There are so many, we will just walk straight into it, dead birds on the outside.
Bonny Snowdon 37:14
I mean, it does make such a massive difference because I've got pieces in my living room that are non reflective, and just normal glass, and the ones with the normal glass and half time, you can't even see what you've got up on your wall. So, I always try to encourage people to use that because and also you have the UV thing.
Ian Peacock 37:35
You've got a UV element to it. So, even the cheaper stuff is got a 70% UV proofing. The is 99 proof UV on the good stuff which is extraordinary but if you've got colors, if you'd have certainly watercolors or pastels, they are so light sensitive some of the colors in there, the greens, the reds.
Bonny Snowdon 37:57
Because of the color pencil and this is why a lot of galleries won't have, a colored pencil of cut has come a hugely long way and they've done a massive amount of research and brought out very, very light fast colors. But you get the fugitive colors like the sort of the very pale Lile key and inks and stuff and that's one of the reasons why I think a lot of galleries won't take color pencil work because they think of it as being substandard and I'd hope that it's kind of shifting a little bit. The light fastness for me having a glass in front of my work that is going to help with the light fastness.
Ian Peacock 38:34
It's brilliant stuff. But the other thing about ardglass [inaudible] this product, I mean, other products are available. But if you look at normal glass and take a few sheets, and then look down the end of them the sort of the edge, it's you'll see a green color. So, what you end up with that green is actually an iron impurity within the glass. So, what happens to art glasses, they take the iron out of that. So, you look down on the sheets of art class, and it's white it's clear. There's no green and that green does alters colors. You know it does alter the colors of things. Part of the thing with art glasses is it's a clear image, pure image where you haven't got any other thing in front of it. Both with its non reflective quality and also its color reducing. So, it's quite good.
Bonny Snowdon 39:34
Yeah. No, it is. I think it's amazing. I mean, I tried to have it in all my pieces. It does make such a massive difference. Well, I've got a question that I've been asking everybody and I'll be quite interesting actually to hear what you have to say because you are quite a confident person. So, when it comes to confidence, what's your number one tip?
Ian Peacock 40:01
Bonny Snowdon 40:01
Yeah, I should have asked you this before. Shouldn't I?
Ian Peacock 40:05
What you explore, your confidence, I think comes from knowing your brief. If you're sure, you're positive of what you believe in backed up by years of experience and sound fact, then you can extend your personality out and in terms of coming out with facts, and that's a confidence giving thing, and then you have to have the confidence to actually say that, which is not easy. In terms of confidence as a sort of, as an expression, that's almost all learned art. I did some public speaking as chairman of a charitable group and I ended up sort of giving, who I don't know, probably a dozen, maybe 20 speeches in a year and public speaking does not come naturally to me. I'm more one on one and I have the confidence to do that and this is weird, because you get other people who will sit there in front of a lectern in a theater or sort of console, and they have the confidence to push their personality through. With me, it's a bit different, I've got the personal, my confidence comes from talking to anybody, one on one, or a group of people smaller, if you extend that to sort of 40, 50 people, I get a little nervous. But eventually, the confidence of a public speaking of doing them, sort of virtually every month gave me sort of the skills to do it and not sort of choke, because you can do but confidence in terms of your own skills and ability, it's a validation, isn't it? You end up getting confidence because somebody comes along and pat's on the back, or in terms of artistic work, they're going to spend 800 quid on a piece rather than 40 quid on a piece. That's got to be a confidence giver.
Bonny Snowdon 42:04
Yeah. So, having a bit of that sort of self affirmation, and actually people saying, oh, you're doing a great job, that helps to build the confidence and the mindset as well.
Ian Peacock 42:15
And the mindset. Yeah, you do. You need that mindset of being sure of yourself. Don't have any doubts.
Bonny Snowdon 42:24
No, that's actually quite a big thing, isn't it?
Ian Peacock 42:26
Bonny Snowdon 42:28
Because like I saw you before, when you were with a customer, and he was like, that cgoes for how much? You were straightaway, well, it's going to be this.
Ian Peacock 42:37
Yeah, but I don't care. This is the thing. I'm so busy with we're doing what I'm doing. If he doesn't bring it in, I'm not bothered. But just because he doesn't want the price, this is the other thing. He doesn't like the price. Well, who does? It's going to cost you X. Well, I prefer it to be Y. Tough. It's X. Do you want to do it or don't?
Bonny Snowdon 43:00
Well, yeah, exactly and the quality that they're going to get from here.
Ian Peacock 43:03
It's there everybody to see, you need to have the quality to back it up and the fact that I know I produce some bloody good product. It's a fantastic, the things I'm doing, the creativity that I give to the work, the experience, 36 years, I've been framing.
Bonny Snowdon 43:26
Since you were seven.
Ian Peacock 43:28
Since I was seven.
Bonny Snowdon 43:33
The confidence thing is massive and if you don't have confidence in yourself and your own abilities in your work, then it becomes very, very difficult to then it kind of exude.
Ian Peacock 43:42
Whatever else you going to do just erase it. If you haven't got the confidence in yourself and your abilities, who else is going to do it? You buy into confidence and it's part of that thing, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. So, somebody buys into your confidence, and that gives you more confidence that the end result is your end up with a complete egotistical maniac plenty of those in politics and you do. You end up with sort of like Richard Branson. Our confidence is hidden and then you're self promoting and stuff like that.
Bonny Snowdon 44:16
But when you're confident people believe in you. I mean, I keep saying to people oh, gosh, am I ready to do commissions and stuff? I'll say, you're always ready to do commissions. It's just about your self belief and your confidence. You can be an absolutely incredible artist, have no confidence and not be able to sell a thing but you can be a very mediocre artist have huge amounts of confidence and self belief and be incredibly successful.
Bonny Snowdon 44:47
Everything comes out on social media. It's not just a face to face thing. Your Confidence comes out in the words that you use all of the time. So, for me the confidence side of things and helping people build the confidence is incredibly important. I mean you've always come across as very confident.
Ian Peacock 44:47
I know a few of those.
Ian Peacock 45:12
Well, yes, I haven't always been. In your own life, you get knocks and the sort of things that happen in your personal life, sort of not set you back. But in terms of people who are coming in and wanting your framing services, or it's extensive because I don't just do that. We have our consultancy, which is basically somebody comes in and says, I need a painting for this and we'll find the painting or I hang paintings. So, people have a collection of artwork, and they might have moved house. So, it's where it's best to put those things in. What do we do this? Will we remount that? Then we take it away, we remount it, we refine it. Got a bag of stuff over there, which is exactly that. I saw the client last night, she's just said, I need my house to look like a show home. I want it to look like it's from Homes and Gardens. I said, right. Well, you need to put that, that, that in the bin. Because it's rubbish. She went, oh, right. Okay. But you got to tell them. You have to have the confidence to be able to tell them. Because at the end of the day I'm charging 100 quid an hour for that service and what's the point of blowing flow for them to say, oh, yeah, is that picture is great, [inaudible] It's rubbish. Put it ihe bin, burn it. It's horrible. Because you bought it from Ikea for 25 quid when you were a student. I've got sentimental value, sentimental value, it's rubbish. It's always been rubbish.
Bonny Snowdon 46:48
But then you have the charm to go along with it and they're loughing along with you.
Ian Peacock 46:52
But what you're saying is, somebody's asked your opinion someone's wanting that. So, I'm not going to go in and say, yeah, everything's rosy in your interiors garden. You've been paying me the money to actually tell you and there's an interior designer I work for and she's even more brutal than I am. What can I do to make this look good? Got petrol and the match? Honestly, he say the most brutal things to them, and at the end of the day, she'll create something, which is amazing and they'll then sit down and go, wow. But it takes a bit of time to get across. She's every inch as confident as I am, but it's how you put it. It's certainly even crying on the floor. Your social life? Where do I start? Well, I wouldn't start for here.
Bonny Snowdon 47:56
Well, on that point, before we get into any more in you have me lying on the floor, thank you very much for chatting to me. It's been very nice.
Ian Peacock 48:06
It's been a pleasue.
Bonny Snowdon 48:07
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode of my It's a Bonny Old Life podcast. If you did, I'd be so grateful to you for emailing me or texting a link to the show, or sharing it on social media with those you know who might like it too. My mission with this podcast is all about sharing mine and my communities experience and hope by telling your fascinating personal stories, championing the other amazing humans in my personal, professional and membership community, and to create another channel through which I can support you to realize your colored pencil and life dreams. If you haven't done so yet. Please help me on my mission to spread positivity and joy throughout the colored pencil world by following me on my socials at Bonny Snowdon Academy, or by getting on my list at bonnysnowdonacademy.com, and remember, I truly believe if I can live the life of my dreams doing what I love, then you can too. We just need to keep championing and supporting each other along the way in order to make it happen. Till next time
Transcribed by https://otter.ai